Hi, first of all... I'm enjoining a lot with this incredible piece software! Now...

When I apply "Unset" to a fill of a original path of a series of Clones (so I can than apply different fills for each of his clones), I get that the original path is filled with a totally black fill! Instead remain invisible, that would the expected behavior, isn't? Cause that is exactly what happen applying the same principle to Strokes... So, do you think something is broken in this feature or I'll be doing something wrong? Or... it's only that this "Unset" feature is intended to be used in some other way?

Well, as you can see, I'm a little confused with this issue, so any clue/help it'd be very appreciated, THANKS!

Hmmm... sorry in advance! But I still wonder if it'll be a normal behaviour that an "Unset" fill makes my shape filled with an opaque black and, as I don't know who more could I ask, I must insist

...Anyway, don't you think that if I want a black fill I'd fill it with a normal black color fill? So why "Unset" should do it too?? It really has no sense to me and I think it only can lead into visibility headaches trying to work with clones...

And well, that's the reason I suspect it could be a bug, but I'm only a newbie here to be totally sure of that by myself...

This is because of the way SVG works. If an object doesn't specify a fill, then it inherits a fill, which in the absence of anything else will be fill="black". The same happens with stroke, except that the default for stroke is stroke="none".

Ahhh... a pity, but good to know it! So thank you very much

Then... how do yo think that original black object could be avoided in my artwork? Cause I see how sometimes it could be hidden below his clones, but it coudn't be possible in several situations where holes or transparency be involved, so... at the moment, I'm moving the original paths into other layers that I can make invisible and, the good think is, that clones still work even when you move it from one layer to another! But I wonder if couldn't be a better and more "practical" solution not involving this kind of "complex" setups...

So... if you think that exist a more comfortable workaround for this clones and black original fill issue (that should be like a well known issue), I'm all ears

Putting the original object in the 'defs' section of the SVG file is one way to hide it: select the object, open the XML editor (Shift+Ctrl+X, or use the <> button on the toolbar), grab the highlighted line and drag it and drop it onto the 'svg:defs' element (which is usually near the top), then close the XML editor.

...Ey! I didn't imagine that I should start to use that kind of XML features so soon! Jeje... Of course I'm going to try it right now , thank you very much again!

Ops! It seems that if I drag the "object" it into the 'svg:defs' I can't select/modify it anymore so... I suppose I should be dragging it "in & out" every time I want to make a modification to the original clone or... well, I suppose too that I could wait to put it there at the very last step, but this makes me think if won't be more practice the other layer visibility method I described above... Well, at least It have served to help me to "familiarize" myself with that XML editor that I saw with fear!

Anyway... don't you think that all this could have been easily avoided simply don't making an "unseted" fill vissible??? I mean, I understand that it obey some SVG standard rule that Inkscape must respect, but what the heck that SVG designers & engineers was thinking when they took such a decision! I wonder...

Ramon0 wrote:Anyway... don't you think that all this could have been easily avoided simply don't making an "unseted" fill vissible???

Wouldn't it be hard to select the object if it were invisible?

what the heck that SVG designers & engineers was thinking when they took such a decision!

They were probably thinking that if you have objects with no style specified, then black fill and no stroke is a good default. It's unlikely that they were thinking about clones at all, because the normal thing to clone would be something that is not itself displayed (e.g., a 'symbol' element). Inkscape doesn't currently provide any real support for working like this, but that's not the fault of the SVG designers.

sas wrote:Wouldn't it be hard to select the object if it were invisible?

Not with "Outline Dysplay Mode" (Ctrl+5), that I used to use all the time that I want to select something precisely, or even it could still been "selectable" by dragging a selection box. In fact, you can actually select a not filled/stroked (so invisible) path in any of that ways.

sas wrote: Inkscape doesn't currently provide any real support for working like this, but that's not the fault of the SVG designers.

...Sorry! And yeah, I thought it better after I wrote that (really I wouldn't be able to think in another issue right now ) and neither has not much sense to me too... cause, as well as you can get a not filled/stroked path ussing the "No Paint" (x) function, I supppose that it well could be possible that Inkscape had manage all this clones issue not ussing the "unset" feature but taking advantage of another setting that had allowed unfilled shapes as the original paths, now (that the damage is done), I suppose that all could be much more difficult to mend, for retro-compatibility (and maybe other) issues... but who knows, if all could be solved adding a simple checkbox to can differentiate which clones should transmit their fill characteristics and which not, or... or something like that, I really don't know...

So well... at least I know now, that I can make my first well founded "feature request"! And how I hope they find it interesting... Well, we'll see... at the moment: greetings and THANKS for all your attention!

Oh geez, you posted your last reply while I was typing mine. But I think I'll go ahead and post mine anyway. Here it is:

I also don't understand this "unset = black" thing, but have to trust that those professionals who design Inkscape surely must know what they're doing!

Anyway, I just want to offer a couple of thoughts. If the clones you're working with are Tiled Clones, the original must be unset fill, or else any color options that you might want to apply using the Color tab, won't work. But no worries about the black original because 1 - it will be covered up by the 1st clone, and/or 2 - it can simply be deleted (unless you plan to use it again).

And the other thought is that you can just move the original outside the border of the image, before using it (uploading). Or it can even be deleted, without affecting the clones (although I wouldn't delete it if there were any chance I might need it to change the clones in the future).

...ARGH! I didn't want to sound too much rough with this kind of professionals cause they are the thing I more admire (and envy, OTOH ) in this world! So sorry if I expressed myself in an inadequate mode

Well, turning to the issue... yeah! Although I still have thought in many similar workarounds, they are always welcomed just in case, so thanks too Anyway... they always will be workarounds and, although I couldn't live without they (cause my peculiar way of work), the ideal should be to reduce'em as most as possible cause, to say the least, they always require extra time... And talking about this case, really I can't see the reason (otherwise than by mere chance) someone could find useful to have a black shape (or several) swarming or "hidden" (with the consequent transparency limitations) around all their canvas, so you always will be doomed (see you how I sound rough in english as much as I don't want?? ) inventing solutions or investing time hiding and treating to avoiding them... Cause of all this I though it could be a feature susceptible to be improved and I hope it makes sense

Well, of course I'll countinue turning the matter to find the solution that most fits my way of working but, so far, the one that consists in put the original path into another invisible layer, although could require quite of extra stuff, is the one that I think will let my work in the most dynamic way, I mean, without worrying about have to delete or move or hide that black shapes meantime I'm able to do all the changes that I want, so I think I'll use it until someone comes to something better! Although all this is so relative...

Well that was my thoughts and, as I still said, thank you very much for all