No Active Tool !

Flesh out your ideas for new or improved Inkscape features before submitting a request.
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David Hewitt
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:10 pm

No Active Tool !

Postby David Hewitt » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:52 pm

Currently in inkscape there is always an active tool...(correct me if i'm wrong)...
As when you first load the program up the Select Tool is by default active...

Which is not a big evil... dont get me wrong...
But i would assert that there is a considerable advantage to being able to have NO active tool at all (as strange as this sounds.).

And also that this change actually does not impact AT ALL on current work flow ETC...IE it would not offend any current users as currently the method i am about to suggest to achieve this deselection is not utilized at all in the circumstances where it would apply ...

OK....let me explain...
Currently the "active content bar" serves up functionality to suit the situation...I.E if you select the "select & transform" tool:
you get selection functions, z order functions, rotations, flips and co-ordinates ETC all applicable to this tool....ETC...

Now.... (changing the tack slightly) if you have selected an object and you wish to "back up" and un-select it, what do you do?
You press [Esc]....
What I propose is that once you have done this and no object is actually selected pressing [Esc] again should de-select the current tool... so that none is active...
Then because no tool is active the "active content bar" should serve up functionality specific to the workspace....!
IE you get a free shot.... you can pack in alot of stuff there.....

1)Display mode,
2)Print orientation,
3)grid off or on,
4)buttons to open/close: layer palette, swatches, scripts ETC...
5)document properties,
6)import ETC
7) rulers and measures ETC

That's allot of stuff you can fit on there.... it really creates some serious real estate for no cost.
And provides a neat very high exposure site to house an enormous amount of stray settings that are currently buried in menus when they can now be deftly exposed...

Further to this, this also creates another short-cut that may not be immediately obvious...that is...
That when no object is selected (and this new workspace properties area is displayed) clicking would still behave exactly like the select tool....! IE if you tried to click on something the Select tool would immediately engage anyway!

So not only does the [Esc] key become a one button short cut to all the most useful work space settings but in the same breath it becomes a short-cut to the select tool!!!

So at any time the user can back out of their current selection-tool and be in select mode in 2 presses of the [Esc] key and on the way have access to all the most commonly required workspace functionality...

Win Win.... :D

Simarilius
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Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:37 am

Re: NO ACTIVE TOOL !

Postby Simarilius » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:37 am

several problems with this idea:
  • Your always in a tool context, its a fundamental of the way inkscape is programmed.
  • It would also be potentially very confusing UI for beginners, all i did was deselect, why has it changed context?
  • it wouldnt work for most of the tools as there is relevance for that toolbar when nothing is selected, as it alters the settings of what you create next with the current tool.
  • you dont need a 2 press shortcut to selection mode, theres already a 1 button one, just hit space. (doing it again switches back to the last tool used)
  • Import has a permanent icon on the top toolbar,as dos doc properties, grid has a 1 keystroke shortcut
so yeah, not sure this one works as a concept.

Incidentally, please dont use all caps for titles, its considered shouting and should be avoided. Cheers

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David Hewitt
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Re: No Active Tool....

Postby David Hewitt » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:27 pm

OK think of it this way.....(does this change your view or not?)

The proposal is now.....:
1) pressing [esc] once de-selects the current object as it currently does: no change.
2) pressing [esc] a second time or ( when no object is selected becomes a short-cut to the select tool.)
But when you use this short-cut (even though the select tool is the active tool) the select tool icon is not changed graphically to its selected state (just to differentiate this altered state of the "active content bar" IE that is now showing functions relevant to the workspace)...
3) I.E the active content bar as said above shows a different set of functions relevant to the workspace when [Esc] is double pressed.....
Also i would argue that this should also be the default state of the UI when the program is loaded.

Ie i guess my point here is that there ACTUALLY would not be "no active tool" as the select tool would actually be active but my twist is that when you first load the program or when you press [esc]twice that, this action would only emulate the appearance of no tool being selected so as to open up the extra real-estate this would create on the active content bar....as it could then be "said" to be applying to the workspace.

P.S i think i have side stepped your objections.....( Hey it was worth a try....I like this idea as it simplifies the UI somewhat....and i know people already using inkscape will not appreciate the convenience of this new set of functions when they already are fluent in the current shorts ETC...but from an objective perspective or from a newbie's one...having a set of functionality available on the active content bar for the workspace makes allot of sense).

i hope i'm not being too argumentative for you but i always like to address people's objections with my own brand of logical support for my own view point... not because i invent this justification on the spot just to spite you but because i think allot about these things...

Who doesn't think their own ideas are good ones?

Anyway i don't expect everyone to agree in such a discussion as this... but i do think that allot of people who would dismiss this out of hand were actually presented with a new version of inkscape with these changes they would find they prefer it this way... and i suppose some would not.....like anything...

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microUgly
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Re: No Active Tool !

Postby microUgly » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:32 am

I personally think the problem with your idea is that a tool-less state is that it's not intuitive. People expect the same tool to do the same thing everytime. Changing what a tool does based on which keyboard shortcut you used to switch to that tool will be confusing.

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David Hewitt
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Re: No Active Tool !

Postby David Hewitt » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:07 pm

It seemed intuitive to me..I.E that [ESC] would first unselect the object and then the tool...(progressive un-selection)...
So form this perspective it makes very good logical sense to me.
But perhaps not to seasoned inkscapers......

The [esc] issue aside...do you at least like the idea of the "active content bar" somehow applying to the workspace....?
IE if this could be achieved in a similar yet less offensive manor?
Last edited by David Hewitt on Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

llogg
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Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:30 am

Re: No Active Tool !

Postby llogg » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:28 am

There is no benefit to having no tool selected. If you have the program open you are working on your project. If you want to simply view without making changes you take no action. I fail to see the merit in this idea.

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David Hewitt
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Re: No Active Tool !

Postby David Hewitt » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:51 pm

I like the idea personally but perhaps it is a bit alien to the current inkscape workflow...

I.E using [esc] in this way....I still like the idea of having the content bar somehow refer to the workspace....
As would be convenient.....
Perhaps there is another way to do this?
I can't think of it at the moment...


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