Greetings

One of the Inkscape good points is that it's not only easy but more important it looks easy. I realized that when my 12 years brother (who has little experience with computers and none with vector editors) took a chance to draw some vector toons on Inkscape with some amount of success (when I had Corel he never even tried it). This leaded me to think that an Inkscape version for kids (4+) would be a great project. Some changes would be nedeed, such as making the GUI more children-friendly (vector editors, like most applications, usually resemble ATMs) by fitting children's tastes, you know, and also removing most complicated features and options. Now, reasons for:
1) Inkscape would be the first vector editor doing it as far as I know
2) Coming generations would probably try it prior to any other vector editor, thus getting more familiar with it, thus spreading it and standard Inkscape as well
3) It could give Inkscape very good advertising and lots of great chances
4) It would be a great service
I already registered a blueprint in Launchpad, so all of you who are interested please contribute. It's I pity I can't work on it because I have little or no skills on coding and alike stuff at all, but I can translate and some other. I also volunteer for some kid orgs such as Kidlink so I know where this project could find audience and fit nicely.
Just suggesting. Please let's discuss.

God bless you all

Yeah, i think that is a great idea. My both Kids 7 / 4 play sometimes with Tuxpaint. Reducing the Interface with easy buttons and less effects could bring this idea to reality. If i can help please contact me. But i´m not a programmer too...only an artist. I think i create a preview-fake-Interface tonight.

Thank you Microugly for supporting this suggestion. You know I posted this in Inkscape user mailinglist and got only two replies. I don't really know how does a blueprint works but I was told it's useful so I registered it. I think we can have more people know about this so they get involved too.

Zelus et Radix wrote:Thank you Microugly for supporting this suggestion.

I think you mean to thank Coco Although I do think it's a great way to increase Inkscapes exposure also.

microUgly wrote:I think you mean to thank Coco

Oh, my. I apologize that much, Coco. It's just that I was using Inkscape at the other window, trying some suggestions on tracing from Microugly. I confused. Thank you for your support Coco. Sorry again.
My brother e.g. he's designing a logo for his would-be club. He likes the way vectors look smooth and "professional". You know raster mostly lets modifying, but vector lets creating. Do you imagine how fun your children, my brother and all kids could have creating, handling, stretching and learning a lot about shapes? It's just a matter of introducing it in a wrapper they like.

Ok, I try to visualize my idea of the interface. Clean and simple.
I think kids should play with basic elements, without any effects but with some boolean operators.
Maybe, some pre-installed gradients (rainbow...) inside or shapes from OCAL.
Thats all, i mean. Look at my picture:

full picture:
http://chrisdesign.wordpress.com/files/2008/02/image3199.jpg
edit: I found this on planet inkscape:
http://bryceharrington.org/drupal/inklite

I was reading Bryce's blog this morning. I rather the the Inklite version. Very small, very simple looking. According to him it would be rather simple to maintain.

It's ironic because my oldest son who is 9 can already use Inkscape as it is. For his science fair project this year he wants to screencast Inkscape and draw something relatively easy (like father like son, eh). Perhaps the interface could be somewhat easier for children. However, it didn't take very long before he figured out most of the drawing tools. He pretty much avoids the menus but doesn't do too bad for a little shaver.

Thanks Coco! Now I'm not only excited but also thrilled logo is nice. I think we could open polls to give choose things such as an animal toon mascot for advertising.

Coco wrote:Maybe, some pre-installed gradients (rainbow...) inside or shapes from OCAL.

I really like this. It would also be very encouraging for children having their works displayed in OCAL and Inskcape galleries.

heathenx wrote:I rather the the Inklite version. Very small, very simple looking. According to him it would be rather simple to maintain.

However, there're other reasons for developing kidscape: involved children, grateful parents, good exposure and also nice advertising and great chances with schools and child/teacher comms... at least I think so IMHO but I'm not experienced in software distribution so please somebody drag me back to Earth I'm being too dreamer.

heathenx wrote:It's ironic because my oldest son who is 9 can already use Inkscape as it is.

Heathenx is right. By cases like heathenx child's and many others we know children are fond of Inkscape and it's not so hard for them to figure out how to use it, despite some are too young or know little or nothing about this stuff (specially in developing countries) so they'd need a simpler GUI. Therefore, the appearance is the real key here. Most apps are dull and cold. An overall funny, childish or cute look (in splash screen, buttons, menus...) with a new design will make children feel attracted, even those I described above. What do you think?

https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/170488
Child friendly version? (OLPC?)
various notes

Hi

I think this is a great idea. I fully support it (only partly because I have a creative 9 year old )

Just a little heads up; there is a setup in the UK called Kidscape who do child protection work and they may have issues with the name. I'm not sure if they have legal claim but it maybe good to have another think at this early stage.

With regards the discussion about a lite version there maybe a case for making a cut down version but when I look at what you might take out of the interface I'm not sure if anything should go. It is pretty easy to see what most things do from the icon and really my 9 year old can figure more complex stuff on her Ninteno DS. (Not sure the comment about developing countries warrants a reply )

all good

Deepmonk wrote:With regards the discussion about a lite version there maybe a case for making a cut down version but when I look at what you might take out of the interface I'm not sure if anything should go. It is pretty easy to see what most things do from the icon and really my 9 year old can figure more complex stuff on her Ninteno DS.

My younger brother and couple of his friends (12-13 years) they mostly use the tool box, and not every button it has. Also found there are some options, words and concepts they don't understand. However, mine is just a suggestion, I hope for us to reach a better solution.

(Not sure the comment about developing countries warrants a reply )

I'm from a developing country, and I've lived here all my life, so I guess I've got some background to talk about children in developing countries -at least mine. Many children here don't have any access to a computer, or they have limited access (only school) to often outdated computers. Most children -often low strata- have little knowledge and poor skills on this, mostly using MS Word and MS Encarta to do the homework. I've found it's very common that a kid quickly learns to play and fully master sport games like FIFA 2007, FPS like Perfect Dark, RTS like Age of Empires II and RPG like Pokemon, but the only graphic editor he knows is MS Paintbrush. Personally, I'd like to spread an Inkscape kids version among schools here, but first I must be aware of surrounding conditions.

Apologies Zelus.

I just made my own assumption that you were some person making assumptions about people in developing countries. Shame on me.

I am still wary about this assumption that kids need some interface that is cutesy for them to get into it. (I'm not saying this is your view). From my observation, young people tend to go what most older people go for; an attractive, clear, intuitive interface to functions that are useful to the job in hand.

I think that Inkscape scores high on these criteria in the same way that Google scored in the search engine competition. They produced an interface that was totally obvious, attractive and functional without extraneous distractions.

peace etc.

Dave

Deepmonk wrote:Apologies Zelus.
I just made my own assumption that you were some person making assumptions about people in developing countries. Shame on me.

It's okay Thanks to you the topic arises and a project to offer Inkscape in developing countries could be discussed later.

I am still wary about this assumption that kids need some interface that is cutesy for them to get into it.

I think that Inkscape scores high on these criteria in the same way that Google scored in the search engine competition. They produced an interface that was totally obvious, attractive and functional without extraneous distractions.

I agree with both. In fact, that was the original reason behind my suggestion of an Inkscape kid version -there have been alike suggestions indeed. By reading all posts, I'm starting to think that major changes are not that neccessary for getting Inkscape into a kid version. Changing look is not mandatory, and feature cut is debatable. So which changes should be done? What do you people think?

I suspect that the changes need to be with us adults as usual I know I left my daughter alone with a, to me, rather intimidating sound track looping software and she figured out how to do some stuff on it pretty quick. Mainly because she wanted to create an effect. She had a strong motivation and I guess that's what it takes.

If you just remove some of the toolbars it may make it look less intimidating but really if young people get some inspiring tuition and examples of what can be achieved and left on their own which it for a while and watch what happens...

all the best Dave

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned - I just scanned through the posts.

I'm 12 and I find Inkscape very easy to use - the only bits I can't understand are a few of the dialogs.

It seems to me that a skin for the already-existing program would be best (do IS skins exist?), as this would make dev. work much easier. I know it's not exactly the same but when I had Gimp I found it really annoying having all the dialogs open in new windows so I got GIMPShop, a skin which basically makes it look like Photoshop.

GIMPShop was a little more complicated then just a skin. I don't think Inkscape can be modified in such a way, but it doesn't really need to be since it has already made all palettes docked to the main window. When it comes to customising Inkscape, at most you can change the icons and the size of the icons. I believe kidscape will be functionally simplfied (i.e. less powerful) for the purpose of being easier to use--so I expect it will have less icons, and less menus.

Sounds like an OK idea so long as its still powerful, and super simplified is not mistranslated as STUPID and TOTALLY UNCUSTOMIZABLE as are programs such as tux and GNU paint. Effort would need to go into making sure kiddies understand the difference between saving as a vector and exporting to raster. Perhaps for "save", have a button that well illustrates or suggests what a vector image is, captioned with "save shapes" or "save shape drawing" "or "save drawing", and for export, a button that illustrates what a raster image is with "make picture" or something.

EDIT: know that when I say customizable here I mean in tool settings such as but not limited to precise color picking. I didn't necessarily mean the interface should be customizable.

Zelus et Radix wrote:An overall funny, childish or cute look

KIDSCAPE MUST NOT LOOK LIKE TUXPAINT. Because we're working with kids doesn't mean throw something together that looks like crap and is stand-outey (and seriously, those glass buttons are awful). I remember using old kid art programs where the buttons you selected colors from were paint buckets, or crayon tips. Now that's doing it intelligently.

Hi, the KIDSCAPE idea caught my attention. But reading the thread, I have to agree. I teach Inkscape to my elementary students and I have to come up with simple but fun projects for them to create, but I realize now that Inkscape as a program is simplified as it is and that many of my students enjoy using it. So I fall back on my original purpose before reading this thread which was to look for online tutorials or documentation about Inkscape that is 'kid-friendly' or easy to understand and follow. This would help open up the amount of users for Inkscape and the kids who use it now might in the future contribute to it's growth. So if anyone knows of any website that has posted free, simple, kid-friendly tutorials, I hope you would post the links here. Thank you so much!

Check out the Tricks and Tutorials forum. Many members and visitors have written excellent tutorials, and even have websites/blogs. Quite a lot of them I think would be suitable for kids. If I'm not mistaken, some of them are written for kids, but I couldn't point to one without a little searching.

Thanks Brynn!

Those were really great tutorials on Inkscape .Thanks for sharing them