Is there a way to get a water reflection effect?

Bayne7096 · Postby **Bayne7096** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:01 pm

I'm doing a logo and need to create a water reflection effect similar to this:

http://www.shutterstock.com/cat.mhtml?lang=en&search_source=search_form&version=llv1&anyorall=all&safesearch=1&searchterm=sunset+water+reflection&search_group=&orient=&search_cat=&searchtermx=&photographer_name=&people_gender=&people_age=&people_ethnicity=&people_number=&commercial_ok=&color=&show_color_wheel=1#id=72653581&src=1f1b4ea726fd74aaad42af915f358815-1-4

I was wondering if inkscape (maybe another program?) does this effect to any object which you can manipulate to make it look like a water reflection. I don't want it quite as detailed, but it's pretty close. The ripples need to be distinctive and no too flat. I tried creating the ripples with the path tool but it all ended up looking like a cartoon paint splatter. It's pretty hard replicating that effect - all it takes is a few lines to be wrong and the whole thing doesn't look convincing.

EDIT: I've included what my logo looks like so far with my attempt at the reflection...

flamingolady · Postby **flamingolady** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:03 pm

Yours looks pretty good. I think the difference is that in the example link you have, the reflecton still resembles or has pieces of the original object, while yours doesn't (look closely a the sample one). Also, their reflection starts out small, and gets bigger, plus, it's all one object, whereas yours has 4 separate pieces (in green). Are you trying to look like a reflection in a large body of water or a splash on the sidewalk?
Yours needs a little bit of depth, so a gradient or some gray beneath it would help. What I would recommend is to duplicate each bldg, and start with the green dupped object, then 'flip' it over either by holding onto the corner and dragging it or click on the flip button, then make the what is now the top of the object smaller by moving the nodes in a little. Then, go into the node tool, highlight them all, and add some nodes (click on that button several times). Now, start moving some of the nodes in to create the ripple, you probably could use a filter (jitter or another one), until you get a good reflection. Also, true reflections are black or dark gray with maybe a hint of the green in it, not the same green as the original design. And, water, being ripply, should have some variations on the colors. Hope that will get you thinking at least. good luck.

Postby **druban** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:49 pm

The simple way would be to
1. Make a copy of your object(s)
2. Flip vertically
3. Add nodes - a lot!- by using extensions>modify>add nodes or you can select the segments you want to add nodes to with :tool_node:

and hit Ins repeatedly
4. ripple by using extensions>modify>jitter nodes, no y displacement, large x displacement
5. Make a puddle shaped clipping or masking path to put an outline around the reflection
OR
6. Repaint the reflection with a gradient that goes to transparent

there are better ways to get a water reflection effect, but they would start essentially the same.

: path293.png (17.74 KiB) Viewed 15240 times

Postby **brynn** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:24 am

Gosh, I sure am glad you guys understood the question. There are as many different water reflections as images on the Shutterstock page! That's a good effort though druban! I'm not sure if that's what Bayne7096 means or not.

I was thinking the the Voronoi pattern extension might be a good place to start. I've been thinking for a long time that it would make a good illustration of the reflection of rippling water on the bottom of a swimming pool -- or on the ceiling of a lighted indoor pool. Of course you'd change colors, and use blurring, and possibly overlap a couple of patterns. And then maybe even some distortion with Envelope LPE. This effect means a lot of work, any way you look at it!

Postby **druban** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:45 pm

Off topic:

brynn wrote:I was thinking the the Voronoi pattern extension might be a good place to start. I've been thinking for a long time that it would make a good illustration of the reflection of rippling water on the bottom of a swimming pool -- or on the ceiling of a lighted indoor pool.

FYI and to help you look up more info on the net these patterns are called Caustics. :idea:

Generally they are approached by interfering different frequencies of sine wave patterns, not random noise or voronoi cells, but you might get it to work nicely! good luck!:D

Postby **brynn** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:15 am

Off topic:

Geez druban, you must be a mathematics professional, or at least have either studied it enough, or studied recently enough, not to have forgotten it. I know what all those words mean, from college years ago, except for "caustics". That's a new one! I've looked up in Wikipedia, so I have a general idea about it now.

I'm curious though, if you could answer a question? When you talk about sine wave patterns (or even caustic), I think of a regular or repetitive pattern of waves -- such as tidal waves or maybe like in a stream or creek, i.e. flowing water. With the Voronoi pattern, I'm thinking of the seemingly random ripples that you might see in a swimming pool, with many people (or many people having recently exitted the pool). In the caustics example (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caustic_%28mathematics%29), the waves are bouncing off of a circle. But in the pool, the waves are bouncing off all the people, their arms, legs, kicking feet, entire bodies; which I can't think of as anything but entirely random. I mean, I realize that every shape and every curve has a mathematical definition. But even with just one person in the pool, identifying all the different shapes that a waves or ripples would bounce off of, at any given moment, would seem impossible to me. Do you mean that a sine wave pattern can describe that kind of random ripples?

Let me try to find a photo of what i'm thinking about...brb
Edit -- like this or this or this

Apologies to Bayne7096 for the OT discussion. But perhaps will lead to a good solution for you

hulf2012 · Postby **hulf2012** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:41 am

Hello
Give a try to the "Hatch (Rough)" path effect. After added the effect, you can modify the direction of the hatch with a double click in the object,it appears two diamonds and two cirlces inside that you can move.
As been said, it 's not a "real reflection", but a representation.

Postby **druban** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:37 pm

Off topic:

brynn wrote:Do you mean that a sine wave pattern can describe that kind of random ripples?

No. I was just talking (through my hat) about simulating caustics in a 2D graphic environment. 3D caustic shading is very much more accurate and demanding, I am sure. I was just talking about overlaying different frequency and phase shifted sine patterns over each other in an additve or screen mode to make it look like it. and i'm not talking about Inkscape either, although I am sure Vince has a lovely ripple and wave filter tucked away somewhere.

Postby **brynn** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:00 am

Off topic:

Thanks druban

v1nce · Postby **v1nce** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:32 am

see viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12678&start=25#p49960
for my version using only filter

Postby **druban** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:22 am

That's really good Vince, evryone should check it out - look how he has made the ripple frequency increase to simulate distance!

v1nce · Postby **v1nce** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:06 am

it looks like I didn't see svg upload failed (because "file of type svg" are not allowed).
Which is not bad because I forget to ask Bayne7096's permission before posting the svg.

For those who wonder how it was made :
i used two turbulence filters.
I tweaked the first one very flat (you do this by setting first base frequency very low (0.00x) and the second way higher (0.125))
and the second is more "rounded" I used 0.00x and 0.05

I "crossfade" those two turbulence from top to bottom. On the top you see 100% of the flat turbulence (distant waves) , at the bottom you see 100% of near waves.

Here's what it looks like.

Then you use this pattern to distort the original shape (using displacement map)

Postby **brynn** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:23 am

Ah-ha! I just posted in v1nce's filter topic, asking how to adjust the rippley-ness. But it sounds like it would not be easy (for average users). FYI, file attachments are not allowed in WIP subforum, but they are here. I can't image SVG wouldn't be allowed. But if it is, you could insert an SVG image - a bit roundabout way to get the file, but better than nothing, I guess.

(I don't know why, but in subforums where file attachments are not allowed, the error message will say a certain file format is not allowed.)

flamingolady · Postby **flamingolady** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:38 am

ok, I looked back at that other thread, and I didn't see any actual instructions on how he created the ripply'ness.

Vince - could you, or anyone, explain how to do 'cross fade'. Does that just mean that you put one on top of the other, lowering the opacity? Do you change the colors?

Sometimes when I look at the result I can see the steps in my head, but mostly I can't, so am thinking others could have that issue too. Basically, I'm just asking for you'all to list the steps as if talking to a newbie, because we all use different terms. I never really learned all the techy terms of Inkscape, and that can make me go off and execute a direction waaaaayyyy different than what the person had in mind, lol. I can get some bizzare end results!
thx

v1nce · Postby **v1nce** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:32 am

Ok. As it looks like there is some interest for this, I'll try to turn it into a tutorial.

For now I attach a version with no copyrighted material to this reply

v1nce · Postby **v1nce** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:41 am

step 1, create your shape:
For this tutorial I'll use a circle. I'll give it a pseudo 3d look by using a radial gradient and moving the center of gradient to the top left.
Duplicate (ctrl D) or clone (alt D) this shape.
Flip vertically (V)
Move the mirrored shape to the bottom (for now, I'll call it "mirror")

step2, Apply a turbulence filter :
select the mirror.
launch the filter editor (menu filter/filter editor).
The dialog is made of 3 panels.
the (top) left contains a list of the fillter. it shuld be empty if you start with a new document.
the right part will show what the selected filter is made of (empty too).
the bottom will show the options for the (currently selected) effect of the filter.
click new to create a new (empty) filter => a new entry is created in the left panel
give it a name.
search in the dropdown list (at the right of "add an effect") for turbulence.
click "add an effect". you should see a new entry in the right panel.
(in the left panel) check your filter. the mirror should be replaced by some pattern.

In the panel at the bottom one should see the options of the turbulence filter.
Experiment with them
. there are two types of turbulence with different 'feelings'.
. set the octaves to higher values to get more detailled patterns (it uses more cpu so if you don't need it keep it low).
. increase base frequency so that the pattern repeat itself more frequently.
. ignore "seed" slider (it's of no use 90% of time)

to make the turbulence looks like a ripple YOU NEED TO SET DIFFERENT BASE FREQUENCIES FOR HORIZONTAL AND VERTICAL (click the "link" button so that you can set both of them)

Use the following settings
type:turbulence
freq: 0.01 and 0.05
octave:1
seed: whatever you want.

step 3, use this pattern to distort your shape.
in the dropdown liste, look for displacement map. click 'add an effect'.
in the right pane you should see a displacement map item below the turbulence we just added.
this item has two entries (triangles).
the first one is used to tell what we want to distort.
the second one indicates what we want to use as a source of distortion.
link the first entry to "source image" = click the first triangle and drag the cursor until you reach the text that is rotated on the right.
link the second entry to the first stage of ouf filter = the turbulence effect.

Now go to the options of the displacement map and change length.
Enjoy.

see step 3

This is the end of part 1.
Your image should look like this

in the next part we'll see how to change the size of the ripples along Y axis.

Postby **brynn** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:11 am

Oh wow, I can't wait to dive into that!

Thanks

flamingolady · Postby **flamingolady** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:54 pm

yeehaaaa, thx so much Vince, I also can't wait to try this !!

Bayne7096 · Postby **Bayne7096** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:32 pm

This is so comprehensive! Thanks for all your time and effort helping me get this effect! Unfortunately none of what I have seen however is exactly what I want, it's all too detailed for a logo. I honestly think the water ripples effect only really works when there is at least some detail so I don't think I can achieve it with just one colour if you know what I mean. I have played around with some of your suggestions but it's not getting me to where I want to be exactly. I am thinking instead of doing a downwards squiggle to illustrate water (in a downwards pointing triangle shape if you can imagine what I mean)...I feel bad for attacking this in a different way but hey, that's designing! At least I've learnt some tricks for the future.

Postby **brynn** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:39 pm

Off topic:

druban, v1nce's images in the filter tutorial above did not show up for me initially, just like yours in other topics. I've been hesitant to blame the problem on the host, in the case of your images. And now seeing v1ince's images behaving in a similar way (his being hosted at tinypic) makes me feel even more strongly that the problem is not with the host. I wonder if the forum servers could effect or affect this issue? Perhaps the commonality is number of images per message or per topic or per page?

v1nce · Postby **v1nce** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:48 pm

Off topic:

Initially there was no images in my post I just used a text filler to indicate that you can see the resut in (one of) the svg attached.

Then I edited my post to add screenshots.

flamingolady · Postby **flamingolady** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:10 am

Bayne,
We tend to get a bit excited when seeing filters, and V1ince is a filter guru, so pls pardon if it got a bit over what you needed.
Someone up top recommended using jitter nodes, which is probably more along the lines of what would do good for your logo.
To give you an example, here's a pic. Due to little time, just realized I didn't write anything. Basically,
1. shape the mirror image which will end up as the reflection, then ad nodes, lots of them. 2. Apply Jitter nodes.
3. Play around with the nodes, make them auto smooth, and play with the shapes.

Bayne7096 · Postby **Bayne7096** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:26 pm

^Thanks flamin! I can already tell that this might work, or at least get the closest effect to what I want. Cheers.

Bayne7096 · Postby **Bayne7096** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:53 am

Yep jitter nodes are fantastic for what I'm trying to achieve. Thanks a bunch!

Bayne7096 · Postby **Bayne7096** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:22 pm

So this is what I've come up with so far using jitter nodes and then playing around with them slightly to get the desired ripple look.

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