Ideas and inspiration in logo design: (feel free to add your IDEAS and INSPIRATIONS and such to this thread.)

And forgive the typos...

Printing:
It is really nice to plan a head on logos being printed.
Logos might be printed small like on a business card or be gigantic like on a sign.
Consider that you might want the logo to look great in gray scale even though most of the time they will be color.
It is very helpful if you know what the logo means at first glance without ever having heard of the company/person/product before.
The over all shape of a logo is a consideration, fitting in a square or circle is a plus in many cases.
The less letters the better on a logo - but that is hard to do sometimes.

More Than One Version:
A logo can be in more than one version: like stripped down or radically ornate - having a clean striped down version is nice as you can then make additional fun versions like version that look like chrome, laser etched wood, shiny plastic, stainless steel, 3d or even covered with dog hair or grass - The base logo needs to be fairly clean/simple/boldly graphic for this to happen.
Some logos need to be readable at a great distance or while viewers are moving down the highway.

Hello,
Thanks for starting this topic!

I'm still designing my logo (see this topic: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4592) and really would like to learn what more experienced people have to say.

I fully expect to become good at this someday, at which time I can help others. For now, I'm still learning.

Thanks again,
Matthew

The Overall Feel:
One challenge is to match the overall feel of the logo to the business or enterprise.
Like shinny plastic might not work as well for eco, as fine grained bamboo or living grass or possibly glass.

What the Logo Says:
Another challenge is having the logo say (without the viewer having to ask) everything they need to know - to know if they are interested.
Like have you ever seen a logo that might be some cool looking word like OOGG? <-- Made up word.

...But that is all the logo says.

Which tells you absolutely nothing. AND is unlikely to be "enough" to cause you to bother looking it up or even remembering to.

A logo should "say it all" if possible - in words, tone and graphics etc.

VitalBodies,
Good thoughts and advice on logo design.

I've been thinking about all this a lot lately, as I struggle to design my own logo. Like you said, I want the logo to "say it all" but remain simple (people remember simple better than complex). It's hard!!

I've bookmarked perhaps 100 sites that I consider models of design, including their logos. When I look at them, simplicity seems to be a common element -- and yet they are all unique.

Thanks,
Matthew

Which tells you absolutely nothing. AND is unlikely to be "enough" to cause you to bother looking it up or even remembering to.

Pity poor Xerox.

A logo doesn't say it all. A logo is one part of a branding effort. How you answer the phones and how you design your invoices are just as much a part of the branding effort.

There are precious few articles on the topic of logo design. Most are about special effects -- the logo that results is merely the excuse for the special effects.

This logo design tutorial is about the concept. Step-by-step logo is an article about logo design rather than fad chasing.

Tone and Color:
Sometimes it helps to imagine trying to convey ones message without words first and then add the words.
How would you say what is needed with just symbols or simple objects?
How would you say it with just tone?
How would you say it with just color?

Overall Expression:
Another factor to consider is the overall expression. Is the business or enterprise down to earth, luxurious or technical?
You would want the logo to reflect the overall expression and give the viewer that feeling.
The logo for a 5 start restaurant would have a different expression than a motocross race.

Association and Tag Line:
While large firms with deep pockets can use multiple means to get you to "associate" various things/feelings/products/events with their logo, the smaller companies do much better if the logo "says it all", as that may be all the potential customer or client ever sees. This is difficult to do, yet is worth the effort, and a fun design challenge.

The "says it all" part of the logo is related to the logo itself. One might need a tag line in some situations.

If there is nothing for the viewer to associate with the logo, might it has not meaning to them, a tag line or symbol can help make that association.

...the smaller companies do much better if the logo "says it all", as that may be all the potential customer or client ever sees. This is difficult to do, yet is worth the effort, and a fun design challenge.

This is a common view, large company or small. There is precious little evidence for this -- nobody tests what any logo says. It's all either in the designer's opinion, or what the client says the logo says. Nobody (and I mean really close to not one person) goes to users and customers to verify what a logo says ...if anything.

If a logo can say it all, it stands to reason quite a few say nothing at all. And "not my logo" doesn't qualify as evidence. Designers asserting this would be horrified if you tested what, exactly, a logo does in fact say with potential customers.

One whopping lot of logos say just one thing: Me Too. Nobody will tell you that, though.

Related:

Logo Misapplication. Big company. Small company. Medium sized company. No difference. Humorously, small businesses get logos for the most part because big businesses have them -- not because they say anything, whatsoever, to anybody excepting in the client's own mind.

The logo design process is generally and widely used as a cheat to get out of doing everything else which does provide a competitive advantage.

The Real Web 2.0 Bubble this really says it all. It's just not what designers prefer to hear -- and have rigged the logo development process to never tell.

DC1,
Great points! I'm definitely interested in hearing the truth about logos, whether we like it or not.

My instincts keep telling me that simpler is better with logos. Of course, it needs to be unique and memorable. But I think the content you develop should really say who you are.

But with that said, developing a "simple" logo for my own site is actually turning out to be quite complicated!

Great discussion, and let's keep it going.

Thanks,
Matthew

simpler is better with logos

This is a testable proposition. Nobody tests.

The old-fangled Coca-Cola Logo: Fancy. Too fancy. Never gonna work.


Starbuck's Uber Complicated Logo. Still a success -- but would be heavily criticized were the company success not known. As for says it all, yes, if Starbucks sold tuna fish. Starbucks first got successfully branded, then simplified the logo a little ..after they got mega big.

Alfa Romeo, known brand -- horrendous logo.


Metro Golden Mayer -- are you kidding me ...that's not a real company.

MGM's a Zoo ...right?!

DC1,
Of course, this is a complex discussion, as any discussion about success and the elements of success and communication are bound to be.

One thing I always come back to with logos is that, if you do succeed, everyone will say your logo is great. If you fail, people will point to the logo as part of the reason. Same thing, I think, with the domain name. Who would call a bookstore Amazon? Doesn't make intuitive sense, but once they became so successful, the word Amazon is now associated closely with books (and a lot more).

And so is Amazon's logo, which lives up to my idea of keeping it simple and yet being identifiable and unique:


What that tells me is that, basic business skills and building a reputation continue to be the most important elements of "branding."

Thanks,
Matthew

What Does Your Logo Say To The Average Viewer?:
If you have unlimited money to put your brand in the minds of the people, your logo might not be the most important part of the equation. If your logo itself is a large part of your branding, and in many cases, the ONLY thing a potential customer might see, then having the logo "Say It All" could mean everything.

The early version of the Starbucks logo said what they offered and had their name and their mascot (a naked mermaid) on it - That logo was bound to draw attention. Even their mascot worked well for their product line of exclusive coffee and tea and such - sexy, exotic, eclectic and out of the norm alluring.

If you are walking down the street and see OOGG, it is not quite and inspiring as seeing Starbucks - Coffee Tea Spices and their mermaid.

One does not need formal testing, what works for you (in logos) when you walk down the street and see businesses and such you have never heard of?

walking down the street and see OOGG

You're missing a couple letters ... allow me to help: Google.

A lot of these companies got the names and logos with zero money, grew over years, then adopted the logo design techniques you talk about afterward.

Originally the search engine used the Stanford website with the domain google.stanford.edu. The domain google.com was registered on September 15, 1997. They formally incorporated their company, Google Inc., on September 4, 1998 at a friend's garage in Menlo Park, California.

Google's original logo hasn't changed much. Google wasn't anything whilst the company was small, it became a verb over time.

Google may say it all. But first they had to do it all. Cuil didn't. Nobody got to see the Cuil logo because they couldn't do a proper search if their life depended on it.

Logos have become so mind altering for clients there should be a wing at the Betty Ford clinic for logo addiction. It's a destructive hallucinogenic that makes you think you don't need a superior competitive advantage, superior service, a well designed product, or anything else. It typifies the "fake it 'til you make it mindset" which leads to business failure.

Simple logos become brands. Complex logos become brands. Pointing to the examples which reinforce your view (or making up really bad fictional examples to prove your point because you think nobody's going to call you on it) proves nothing about business effective logos; or logo design for that matter. All it does is explain what fads are hot with designers this week.

DC1 wrote:

walking down the street and see OOGG

You're missing a couple letters ... allow me to help: Google.

Should Your Logo Says Nothing To The Average Viewer?:
No, I meant OOGG, just a made up name (intended to be a name no one has heard of) for the example, not a well known name like Google. I did not mean UGG either...

A name or letter combination, that if one was walking down the street, and all they saw was OOGG, and there nothing else to identify what is it all about or what meaning it has.

not a well known name like Google.

Didn't start out well known. Just made up. Googling meant absolutely nothing until years later.

I used to shop at books.com in the BBS era -- pre WWW. Hundreds of thousands of books for sale before Amazon even existed.

Amazon wiped the company off the face of the Earth, they folded and the domain was bought by B&N, I believe. Logo design had nothing to do with it. Every say it all got wiped out by made-up names, from books.com to greetingcards.com geting wiped out by the Amazon of greeting cards, BlueMountain.com

The lesson seems to be quite contrary to the examples. Say It Alls seem a recipe for extinction.

What Makes Your Logo Show Up And Have Meaning?:
Venture capitol vs logo which one wins?
A well though out "Says it all" logo vs a logo that says basically nothing, which one wins?

I can't help but thinking there are a number very different factors being joined by some kind of free association.

And... Even nearly unlimited venture capitol is not always a recipe for success, there is more to business than throwing money at it, as the bursting of the dot com bubble showed.
Even Amazon had to have millions of dollars pumped into it for years (rather than just a logo re-desgn) and operated at a total loss for a long long time - not all business can operate in that framework - can yours?

For me personally, if I see a well thought out logo that tells me what I need to know - I can act on it.
For me personally, if I see a poorly thought out logo that tells me nothing of what I need to know - I can not act on it so I don't - pretty simple.

There are many success stories and stories of failures one could quote, and then try to attach the companies logos to the story - but how real is that?
There are any number of reasons a business succeeded or failed - most go far beyond what logo they designed.

Not all businesses have millions in advertising dollars to put their logo in to the minds of the customers - does yours?

Either way, I would guess that most folks that are designing their own logo are not in the group with unlimited venture capital - although a few might be.

DC1: Rather than challenge my ideas and inspirations, it would be more fun to hear your ideas and inspirations on logo design.

Font And Paths:
Another idea is font selection.
What font has the look you need?
Create some random typed letters like "Dkoehg" and then change the font of those letters until the font best conveys your message.
Sometimes, if one uses their company name, they can get caught up in the particulars and details and can miss the overall impression the font itself gives. - so it nice to try something random to start.
When you have narrowed your fonts down to your top choices, try your company name.
Once you have your font narrowed down to your favorite, you can also customize the final lettering in Inkscape using paths for a more custom font if you need or want to.
You can free yourself from fonts by using paths.

DC1: Rather than challenge my ideas and inspirations, it would be more fun to hear your ideas and inspirations on logo design.

Research the competition to gauge the level of inbred thinking "inspiration." Mostly, the word inspiration is a misnomer -- which leaves out being inspired to do something different from lookalike competition.

Consequently most logo inspirations create business camouflage, not a business identity.

Develop and test a coherent set of business policies, techniques, to insure competitive advantage. This concludes with a unique selling proposition, not the standard empty slogan. Why? The number one reason branding fails the business is cognitive dissonance, the logo talks the talk ....the business doesn't walk the walk.

Yes, I know, if the designer likes it, the branding automagically "works." That simply has no basis in reality. More businesses have web 2.0 style logos and business O.5 beta practices and policies.

Last and least, take the USP and represent it in the logo. So, a vapid slogan would be "we listen." In contrast a USP might be "we use a three step requirements gathering process which eliminates the five reasons projects fail." And the logo might then have three recurring elements. This fosters the mnemonic link which is the basis for the logo forging meaning in the customer's mind.

That's how a small business uses a logo successfully. That's how a logo says anything at all.

Logos are a mnemonic for recall of a customer experience. I don't care about people who've never experienced the business somehow gaining transcendental understanding of what the company does. That's not the purpose of the logo. What the logo should do as serve as a shorthand for customers referring new business -- word-of-mouth support -- not the magic charm designers make it out to be.

Finally, test it. And that remains my little secret. Rest assured, there is no question what's happening within the customer's mind when I design.

And... Even nearly unlimited venture capitol is not always a recipe for success

Then don't draw inspiration from companies who got venture funding. Actually, as I have stated, many companies had the logo first -- establishing some degree of success -- then the venture funding.

That's why they still exist.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. Logos say it all, when the company turns out to be successful. When failure rears its ugly head any number of other factors aside from the logo come into play. Inordinately convenient.

Business identities happen 99% outside any graphics program. In designing a business identity exactly 99% of my design work happens outside a graphics program. A logo design is only an end part of a marketing program, it does not replace a marketing program.

While many designers would agree, they immediately turn around and do the exact opposite -- spending 99% of their time in a graphics program getting inspired by copies of copies of clichés. That's the whole problem right there.

Oh what a lively discussion! Great post! Keep it coming!

I am still going through all the posts but I like how you guys illustrate the arguments with examples.

I very much agree with the point of view that a logo is just part of the branding. A strong logo is a main attention getter, but if it stands for a brand or product that has nothing to offer - it will fail.

Lots of companies redesign their logos over time. If the original logo has strong points, and the company is recognized by that, the re-design may be less drastical, but there are many companies that mothballed their old logo and came up with a complete new design. In the end it is their services or product that sells, their name, not their logo (but that helps to recognize them).

Cheers,
Syllie

Clearly the logo is a small part of the equation of a business - yet an important part - particularly for the small business just getting started.

Testing Your Logo:
You make two logos - one that "says it all" and one that says nothing.
Next you make up a brochure and website for EACH logo that is different.
You poster the town the with your two brochures, and using Google Analytics, you see which logo brings in the most traffic.

This would be an interesting test, wouldn't it?

For a company just starting out, and drawing their logo in inkscape, this kind of test could be a viable way to know which logo design wins over customers on the street.

Imagine that the brochure has ONLY two things on it: ONE the logo and TWO a web address - nothing else - and both printed more or less the same way on the same kind of paper etc.

The "potential customer" would have to "take up enough interest" to pick up ONE or more of the brochures and go to that LOGOs web site.

Google Analytics would track the results.

My goal in starting this thread was to give some insights and inspirations for logo design.
I really did not want all that insight or inspiration to be my own, so I invited the Inkscape community to join it.

So jump on in, if you 'd like to!

Create A Virtual Obstacle Course:
For myself, I like create a virtual obstacle course that I can send my logo though.
Does it print well small, does it print black and white like on a fax, does it make sense to anyone but me etc...

Dream Your Design:
While that works for me, (and possibly others) there are potentially many other ways to go about logo design.

One way, is to try to dream the design.
If your using Inkscape you can leave your computer on with Inkscape open and the monitor off, yet ready to go.
Psyche yourself up that your going to dream about a design.

Lay down, flat on your back, with your arms and legs flat to the mattress.
Relax every part of your body so it becomes still and then ponder "dreaming the design" until you fall a sleep.
When you enter the "lucid dream state" create the design and observe the steps you take - be sure to really look at the final design for a time - as if to remember it.

When the design is complete and just how it needs to be, awaken - arise immediately - flick on the monitor and draw - continue to maintain the feeling of the "essense" of the dream.

It has been written that Michaelangelo used to lay down and dream what he was going to paint before painting some of his more profound works.
I can not say if that was true or not, but having tried it, I got amazing results.
Have any of your tried this technique?

This would be an interesting test, wouldn't it?

Only if each version was done by an advocate of that philosophy. Otherwise it's a test of how subtly the tester can sabotage the version they don't believe in. In most cases it won't be subtle sabotage.

For those familiar with experimenter's bias, a proper test is a feat unto itself.

Size, Layers and Versions:
A logo, like an icon, does not have to be drawn in real size while in Inkscape. You can draw the logo bigger then scale the finished design to whatever size you need.

Using layers can also help, as you can place different elements on each layer and then make each layer visible on not. This can help you see what looks the best. Like should your logo have a back ground, does the tag line really work as drawn, or does the logo look best this color or that color? Does a drop shadow really help, should the lines be more bold etc?

You can also create a version of your logo, and then duplicate that logo and place the duplicate to next to the first logo. Next, make changes on the duplicate. Make yet another duplicate and make additional changes.
Compare all the versions and see what you like about each.

Who is your audience?

You should consider the point of view of your audience. Are they kids, teens, parent, a niche group?
While you might be one type of person, they might be another - you might be an adult, for example, and they might be kids.

If you can, take the time and effort to show some of the members of your audience your designs and see what they think; they might or might perceive the design anywhere close to how you do.

You might also tell folks about the business or enterprise and see "in how few words" and "what words" work for them to understand what "it is all about". You might know this and that, what such and such means but do they?

Often you see where someone who has been working one SOMETHING for days, thinks who ever they show that SOMETHING should see it how they do, and know what they know in order to see that way - but they don't.

Many people perform for an imaginary audience, where they think they know how the audience will react, but when faced with a real audience find that the response is totally different.

Try to gain the support and views of your real audience and tailor the design to them.

THINGS EVERY DESIGNER SHOULD HAVE WRITTEN ON THEIR HAND IN A LOGO DESIGN MEETING:
I know what you need more than you do.
I am worth what I charge, I learned art.
You only think you know what you want.
What do you know, you are not a designer?
Just shut up and give me the money.
Colors do not have to work together, they just need to be colors.
The elements of good design are on the periodic chart.
You can't fool me, I designed my design.
It is ok to be different, just look at me.

Not picking on designers, just having fun. : )