Hi all,
here I go again... Playing with LPE I was trying to create a spiral of balls. This is what I've finally got: http://screencast.com/t/Mu75YrRHb97P
It's almost what I wanted to do. Now, however, I was thinking about the size of the balls: is there an easy way to make the inner balls smaller than the outside balls? If it is possible, it should be proportional.
Thanks for the answers.

Mauricio

Hi again Mauricio
Hhmmm, another interesting challenge! You could get the balls' sizes gradually smaller by using Interpolation (Extensions menu > Generate from path > Interpolate). But I'm not sure how to do that, while keeping them along the spiral pathway. Oh, well I see there's an LPE called Interpolate Subpaths, which I've never used before. I'll look into it in a minute.

But first, which LPE did you use to create this image? Could you possibly be using a dev version (which might have LPE's that I don't have)? I see that there is a good deal of distortion towards the center of the spiral. Ooohh, you must have used Pattern Along Path!

Ok, I don't see any obvious way to use Interpolate LPE for this. But if there were some way to combine Interpolate with PAP, that would be awesome! Possibly you could use Interpolate along a straight path, and then bend it. But I don't think you could use Bend LPE to do that. I'm not sure if you could make the bend path into a spiral. I'm kind of doubting it -- it would probably create too much distortion.

I'll do some experimenting

You're right, Brynn, I used Patter Along Path, I chose the wrong name, I'm sorry.
I'm waiting for your experiments
Thanks again.

Oh no, you used the right name. It's just that there are a lot of LPEs, and for some reason, I forgot about the PAP LPE.

But anyway, I did sort of make it work! I used the Interpolate Sub-Paths LPE. Draw a large circle and a small circle, spaced some distance apart. Object to Path, then Path menu > Combine. With the circles selected, Path menu > Path Effect > Interpolate Subpaths > Add. That will automatically make 5 more circles which are sized gradually from large to small. You can add more Steps to get more circles. Deselect, then select with Selection tool Go to Path Effects editor, and click the buttom that's right beside "trajectory". Now you'll see the green trajectory path. Click on it to select both of it's nodes. Then click Add Nodes button a few times (I did until I had 32 nodes).

Then I made a spiral, and did Object to Path. Switch to Node tool, then Ctrl + A to select all nodes. Then click Add Nodes button a couple of times (I did until I had 33 nodes). Then I engaged snapping (Nodes and handles, Snap to Cusp nodes, and Snap to smooth nodes) (disengage all other snap buttons) and snapped the nodes of the trajectory path to the nodes of the spiral path. I don't know why I couldn't get the nodes of the trajectory path to snap to the spiral path itself. It would be easier to control the spacing of the circles. But it does work to snap nodes to nodes.

But you will see that's not a perfect solution. The trajectory path has cusp/corner nodes, so you have to drag the trajectory path, in between nodes, to make curves match the spiral curves, so that the circles are placed properly.

One thing I don't understand, even by reading the manual, is why checking and unchecking the Equidistant spacing option doesn't change the result. Possibly it has to do with using closed paths for the subpaths, rather than the open paths shown in the manual. In some areas, it looks like the centers of the circles are equidistantly spaced, but in other areas, they aren't. But this is my fist time using that LPE, so perhaps there are certain details I haven't learned yet.

I didn't try using the Bend LPE. It might work better than snapping to a spiral (or worse). I'll try in a minute. (Edit -- Bend can work the same way. Also, forgot to say, after I get nodes all snapped, I needed to add many more Steps. I don't see any way to make them spaced better, other than trial and error. But again, maybe a detail I haven't learned yet.)

Oorrr, maybe someone else has a better and easier solution?

Thanks for the tutorial, Brynn. Now it's my turn to try to reproduce it.
If you can, put a link to the image, just to see how far I'm from you.
Thanks again.

Hi Mauricio.

I have not tried brynn's method but here are my go:

1. Create the circle.
2. Click twice on the circle until you see the rotation handle cross in the middle.
3. Pull the cross down below the circle (ex. 5 x diameter of circle - Center of spiral will be at the rotation center)
...(Click Color_Spiral image below to see the transformation handle.)
4. Go to Edit - Clone - Create Tiled Clones.
5. Enter in the different tabs:
Symmetry; P1,
Shift; Shift X 0% Per Row (PR), -100% Per Column (PC) (Make sure to enter "minus sign" in front of the 100 number)
......... Exponent; 1.00 PR, 1.00 PC
Scale; Scale X -2% PC, Scale Y -2%PC (Again, negative values)
......... Exponent; 1.1 PR, 1.1 PC
Rotation; 20° PC

Rows = 1, Columns = 60
6. Click Create

After a little trial and error to get the data entered correctly:

(Click image for larger version)
( If you don't get this type Ctrl-Z and try again after correcting the inputs - "rinse & repeat")

Have fun with Tiled Clones! Make Rainbow Spirals - Flowers etc.
Try changing the colors by having the fill and stroke "unset" - (Click question mark in the stroke and fill color menu and change the hue to 10 % the Color tab in tiled clones menu.)
Set initial color - Here I started with blue - 0000ffff.
...
(Click Images for larger versions.)
SVG Files:


RGDS
Ragnar

Really cool, Ragnar!!!
Thank you very much!

Oh cool Rangar. I was coming at it like Brynn is. I created a spiral, changed it to a path, put one small circle on the inside and a large one on the outside, but haven't figured out how to correctly get them on the path, everytime I try, it all disappears. So off to try Rangar's way.
I really thought the answer would be much more simple, ha. Hope someone finds a simpler answer that will become a built in method.
I just don't like working with clones, for some reason it just never seems to work out for me.

EDIT: (rangar) I need help on the Scale tab, the Exponent number, the PR will not 'hold' on to the negative number you gave us, not sure why. I have checked, double and triple checked all tabs, changed the wrong numbers, and for some reason the Scale tab thing appears to be the issue. When I change it, and click on Create, I get a circle of circles, well, it starts out as a circle then decreases to an oval thing, doesn't spiral at all. oh, and that number you gave us for that tab keeps disappeaering.
any ideas as to waht's wrong? anyone else get this?

dee

Hi

For the exponent it has to be a positive number - the "minus" sign I used as a hyphen - reckon I have to come up with something better.
The shift and scale numbers are negative as the minus sign are part of the number, no spaces in between.
If your circle is transforming to an ellipse check your scale settings, it to be the same in both X and Y direction.
Thanks for finding my errors! After this I will check my own instructions before posting. The post is now edited as the exponent was in the incorrect tab!! ("rinse & repeat again)
Sorry for the confusion!

RGDS
Ragnar

Ragnar, oh, hoping I caught you on-line, did you use the - as a hyphen throughout all the numbers? Maybe you could replace it with a colon.
thx! this was driving me nuts, off to try it again.
BTW - how you guys come up with these mathamatical things is way beyond me, thanks much for sharing!


**Lastest EDIT: Changed the numbers again, the circles are now round but still not getting a spiral, and not even a circle now. It's only creating one additional circle, and it's right on top of the original. I do have negative # for shift and scale, but the exponents on each are positive. no idea what is off now.
I
dee

Hi.
The problem is very common when working with computers - it's called PEBKAC. I suffer from it a lot!
(Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair!! )

Did you move the rotation handle as per step 3?
Tiled Clones will be creating copies on top of each other if the rotation handle is in center of the original circle.
To clear the Tiled Clones menu to start over press the "reset" button in the main TC window.
The only way to learn a tool like TC is to play with it - a lot!
Took me a long time to figure out how to avoid the tiles to "run off to the left" by setting the X shift to -100%
An engineering background helps understand some of the mathematics involved but it's not a "requirement"!
RGDS Ragnar

yes, I changed the + rotation, it's well below the circle. yes, feeling like a total dummy at the moment, lol.
Had to laugh at PEBKAC! thx for being patient, hoping I'm not the only one with this issue. I'll look again and report back.

EDIT- still not right. my #'s are the same as the above, rotation + is correct, etc. something just isn't working. I'm reading each - as a negative now.

Hi flamingolady - dee.

I am impressed with your perseverance!
Just carry on - you will get it right in the end!
Have a look at the TC Tabs below:
........
Click Thumbnail for full-size image.

Good Luck!
RGDS Ragnar

Oh wow, Ragnar -- look at you with the radial tiled clones! That thought did go through my mind, but I don't think I could have made it work. If I can find the time, I'll give it a try myself.

Mauricio, I would suggest Ragnar's technique. It is much better than mine!

Ragnar - thanks so mch for sticking with me. I got it - finally, it works, it works, it works, and I am doing the happy dance. !!!!! I couldn't be happier.
Apologies to Clipper if this isn't what you need, I wasn't trying to high jack the thread.

Ragnar - here's what I found, in your original tutorial you listed the Shift of X as '100', but, it should be 1.0, please take a look, that's the difference of what I found in the tut vs the screen shot (with the screen shots being correct). Maybe you could edit that post one more time to update it, might save you a whole lot of questions from dummies like me, lol.
I even went and read the Inkscape manual, which was very disappointing, it has nothing about the clone settings or what they mean, or how they work, so that left me even more clueless. I know this stuff makes sense to you engineers and math specialists, but not to the artsy folks like me! thanks so much for posting this, and tolerating all of my questions, it's much appreciated!

p.s. should I just ask this in advance, would you mind posting the screen shots of the one you did in colors too? if so, I promise to be good!
dee

Hi flamingolady - dee.

I am impressed with you finding and putting up with my errors! - The Per Row Shift should be 0 - not 1.00%.
(That was an "Id Ten T" error. Replace the "Ten" with the number! (ID Ten T errors are more severe than PEBKAC) )
I have updated the guide and TC Tab image accordingly.
As per your wish; the TC Tab for the color setting are now added to earlier post. (Rest of the tabs are as before). Your wish is my command!
Make sure that both the fill and stroke color is set to "Unset" in the stroke & fill color dialog - Click the question-mark "?" to unset.
Your circle will turn grey - as in my "flower" example - you can still use transparency.

RGDS
Ragnar

ok, now playing with the colors, I'm stuck on changing the color:
Make sure that both the fill and stroke color is set to "Unset" in the stroke & fill color dialog - Click the question-mark "?" to unset."

I can't figure out how to set to 'unset', and don't see a ? on the fill and stroke menu. I tried X'ing out the colors on both, but that didn't work. Not sure where I went wrong.

Hi

The colors have to be unset from the stroke & fill color menu - not from TC menu.
( Use; Shift+Ctrl+F )
The "unset" had me puzzled for a while as well as I thought the question-mark
was a "help" function - might be an idea to change the icon to something else??


Click Tumbnail for larger image.

Good Luck again!

RGDS
Ragnar

Aha, I also thought that ? was for help all of this time, since it doesn't have a binding box around it like the others do. I'd rather it said 'unset' than have a ?...
It works, it works, again, doing the happy dance. thanks so much for all of your help! Now I can go play with the settings! (good thing I don't mind being publicly humiliated )
I hope this helped the OP as well.

hint: I'm sure many of us would love to see some more indepth tuts on the ways the TC could be used to make cool objects like this, so calling all math genuises who are looking to do some more tuts (Druban, Ragnar, Maestral, Brynn, and so on, too many to list here)!

Thanks Ragnar so much!

Hi flamingolady.

Got my color menu changed in order to avoid confusion later.


To change: Edit the icons.svg file in your "install _dir/inkscape/share/icons" folder where install_dir might be c:/program_files

Good Luck
RGDS Ragnar

You have such impressive skills, Ragnar!
I'm just thinking, that might create even more confusion for people, when they can't find a U button on their Inkscape. Maybe more effective to make Wishlist "bug report" to change Unset icon from ? to something else. Actually may have already been requested, but I haven't searched.

Oh, but hey! Looks like you could maybe join devs and change the interface yourself?!

Hi brynn.
Thanks for the kind words.
Do you reckon it's better to remove my post about the changed Fill&Stroke menu.
Maybe the question mark was put in the menu as a reminder to "change it later" but was "forgotten" before submitting to the program.
Join devs? - Sorry but still at beginner level in Inkscape! I But can submit my edited version for inclusion in a later version??

RGDS Ragnar

No, I don't think it's necessary to delete that message. Maybe someone would appreciate the little bit of code you provided. If it's as easy as that little bit, it must not be very hard to change all the icons. And I know a LOT of people would like different icons.

I don't think the question mark was put in as a reminder. I don't think so, because I've seen it in other places as an indicator of Unset. Unfortunately, I can't remember where I saw it, now, lol. But I could be wrong. Let's check the manual.... Ok, apparently the only time an Unset style would be needed, is for coloring clones. Maybe it should be removed from the Fill and Stroke dialog altogether, and instead, placed somewhere in Tiled Clones dialog, or maybe Clones submenu?? In any case, since that's it's only use, maybe a different icon is not needed either?

I'm actually not sure how to submit anything for future versions. All I know is to request new features at Launchpad. If anyone asks more than that, all I can think of is to suggest the mailing list or IRC channel. It would be nice to be able to explain though. Maybe it's addressed in Launchpad Answers??? Let's look.... Ok, well not with any of my searches, could I find that info.

You know who might know though? v1nce said something about some new filters he's making, being in a future Inkscape release. Maybe he would know. If you find out, would you let me know?

Ragnar,
I'd say leave the post, it sure can't hurt anything. To be honest, I don't think the 'U' would make me think 'unset' either, would be nice to see the big U, and in smaller size the full word Unset, though honestly, having clicked on it like once before and nothing happened, it probably doesn't mean much to most of us.... I'm thinking it took me long enough to get the balls in a spiral, so I'll leave well enough alone for now on re-coding anything, as it's been over 30+ yrs since I've done coding, and you might now be up to more stupid questions from me - yet, lol!
BTW - I can't believe you are calling yourself a beginner, geez, that must make me an Inkscape Idiot, lol.
dee

Sorry but still at beginner level in Inkscape! I But can submit my edited version for inclusion in a later version??

Now I'm feeling really bad
Thanks for all the posts, you helped me a lot.