tiled clones, color tab, HSL Qs

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brynn
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tiled clones, color tab, HSL Qs

Postby brynn » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:58 pm

Hi Friends,
I'm just playing around with Tiled Clones on the Color tab. Here's a sort of sampler I made to illustrate my questions.
Image
(Geez, I don't know how it happens that images I insert into messages turn out so big -- I purposely scaled it down by 50% before saving it! Maybe it's just my 800x60 screen res?)

So anyway, on the Color tab, I put the same % in Rows and Columns beside Hue. By Saturation, I put 100% in each, and in L, 0 in both. The 16.7% one came from the tavmjong bah Guide, which results in each diagonal line of clones being a single, solid color. But it's only 6 colors, not what I thought was the typical 7 (ROY G BIV). (Orange is missing!)

After a good bit of experimentation, I found that 100% / 16.7 = 5.9 or 6. Thus the 6 colors. If I put 50% in each H, I got alternating diagonal rows of 2 colors. So clearly whatever percentage one enters for H, deterines how Hue spectrum is divided among the Rows and Columns -- or in other words, which colors are assigned to which rows/columns.

That's how I came up with 14.3 (100/7) hoping to get 7 diagonal rows of each 'roy g biv'. You can see in my image above, that 14.3 does render a goldish color, but still not orange. And in addition, there are 2 rows of green, 2 of blue and no yellow!

So my 1st question, how can I get the 7 colors of the spectrum displayed one per each diagonal row of the tiled clones array? I'm thinking I'll have to make my own gradient looking like the spectrum I want, and apply it to all the clones as one. But I do wonder if this can be done only with the Color tab of the Tiled Clones dialog?

And now referring to the array made with 5.0% in each row/column for Hue, you can see that for this particular array the spectrum more or less "fits" perfectly, with red at each end and no other repetitions. However I can't help but notice how red, blue and green cover several diagonal rows, while orange, yellow, blue-green and purple, barely have a single row of representation.

But then I looked at the HSL tab in the Fill and Stroke dialog for comparison, and I do notice that the Hue spectrum shares this kind of distribution of color. So my next question is Why? This may be one of those, 'that's just the way it is' answers. But I had never really noticed before that the colors separating red, blue and green take up far, far less space along the spectrum than red, blue and green do. And I'm just curious why it works this way.

Thanks for any comments. I really appreciate your help :D

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prkos
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Re: tiled clones, color tab, HSL Qs

Postby prkos » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:31 am

That's a very interesting question! I'll look into it more when I have some free time but of the top of my head the reason is in maths of the color spaces. You know RGB is a color space, where every color is represented by 3 numbers, how much red, green and blue there is in that color, this means that every color is a vector in 3D space. It's similar with HSL (hue, saturation, lightness) it's also a 3D color space that represents each color with those 3 numbers. I guess the reason why there's so little yellow in that spectrum is because of the maths of that color space, there are fewer vectors in that color space with yellow hue, than there are with red hue...
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macti
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Re: tiled clones, color tab, HSL Qs

Postby macti » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:17 am

Hi Brynn,

I havent´t got time to play around with tiles and colors right now. But I´m sure this precious little app "Color inspector 3D" will help you to find the answer yourself. It´s a 3D visualization of colorspaces such as RGB, HSL, LAB etc. You can open a image of your choice and it´s colors will be visualized in a 3D space. It will open your eyes! I´m sure this is the key to your question; because has to to with "color space" as prkos said.

"Color inspector 3D" runs as stand alone (Java based). Just download the .jar file and double-click on it.
http://rsb.info.nih.gov/ij/plugins/color-inspector.html

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brynn
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Re: tiled clones, color tab, HSL Qs

Postby brynn » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:05 am

Thanks prkos and macti,
I'm not sure I even understand the concept of "colorspace" :?
I would like to try the 3D Color Inspector, so I downloaded it. But when I double-click, it says Windows needs to know what program created it. So do I need to also install Image J? Or else, what would I need to use it?

macti
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Re: tiled clones, color tab, HSL Qs

Postby macti » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:31 am

Hi Brynn,

I´ve uploaded the "ColorInspector3D" file to MediaFire for you, just to make sure you get the correct file.

It works fine on windows. I use it at home and also at work.
The other day we tested it on my friend´s Mac. No problem at all.

Just double-click on the this jar file.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=78a9e733780c70830de4fc1039a01674e04e75f6e8ebb871


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brynn
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Re: tiled clones, color tab, HSL Qs

Postby brynn » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:23 pm

Oh dear macti, I can't open files on Mediafire, for some reason. I've spent a good deal of time troubleshooting it in the past, and never have figured out what the problem is. In any case, as long as it's a .JAR file, I still won't be able to open it.

Btw, I went ahead and let Windows search for the .JAR fileltype, and it's a Java Archive File. Apparently it's a compressed file, but the Windows context menu does not give me the option to Extract or Extract All, like with regular .ZIP files. The search results also indicate a couple of programs that can uncompress or extract the .JAR. But still, I'm guessing I'm going to need Java to open the 3D Color Inspector. And I know I don't have Java.

So anyway, thanks for all the info you provided. It's looking like more work than I want to get into, right now, to be able to open it. But I will definitely keep the file handy, and if I ever find out that I need to install Java, I will go back and play around with 3D Color Inspector.

Thanks again :D

macti
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Re: tiled clones, color tab, HSL Qs

Postby macti » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:06 am

Hi Brynn,
you are right: on Windows, Java 5.0 or later must be installed to get this 3D color inspector running.
Sorry I didn´t know that.
It just worked on my computer, so I didn´t give a thought about it what the jar-file extension actually means.


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