Gggaaaahh!!
Why can I not get Clip to work consistently?!!

micro, when you have a chance, can you have a look at this file? As always, no rush

http://www.petaimg.com/uploads/1224713345.svg

As per our last communication on this issue (viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1656), in which we discovered a bug, clipping is supposed to work when using a clipping path which has a fill/stroke. As I mentioned at the end of that topic, I had not been able to get clipping to work, except by removing the fill/stroke of the clipping path. And here is the perfect example.

I last saved this file (b4 uploading) with layer Layer 1 not visible, and zoomed to 800%. So when you open it, you should see a bright green circle with a black stroke in Layer 3. That is my clipping path. Below it is a group of 2 objects, also in Layer 3. You can see the blur that needs to be clipped away, peeking around the edges of the green circle. And this is right before I do Clip > Set.

When you select the group and the green clipping path, and set the clip, you can see that the clip worked, because the blur disappears from around the edges. But the green circle with black stroke is still there!. If you remove the fill and stroke from the clipping path, rubberband select and clip, then you have a normal appearing clipped group of 2 objects.

So what's the problem here? Has the clipping path actually moved again? You may remember that I'm using v 0.46, and don't have the ability to locate it. If it has in fact moved, we have very different circumstances from the file used to report the bug.
A. I'm not trying clip across several layers, as before; and
B. I'm not trying to clip several objects, just one group.

I might also mention that this was the same canvas where I'm having trouble making single dots using Ctrl + click, where the dots show up far away from where I tried to put them (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1764). (I cleaned up the canvas to give you a relatively uncluttered file, so the dots aren't there, but you can probably try to create dots, and see where they show up.)

Also, I was going to PM you to look at this topic again - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1695. It may or may not be related to this. In this topic, apparently my use of "Fit page to selection" (on the Page tab of the Doc Prop dialog) caused transformation data in the XML Editor to be assigned to all the layers, even though the transform was done on one object in one layer. This caused my tiled clones to be sort of sprayed all around the canvas, instead of where they should be. loonquawl and I aren't sure if this is a bug or not. But I've used one transformation or another on all 3 of these images, as well as "Fit page...". And if using the "Fit page..." is causing some weirdness with transformation data, I wonder if that might explain ALL these problems?

And once again, thank you very much for your help. Also no rush, I know you can't always access petaIMG-hosted files. Whenever you can open it is fine with me All best.

I'm going to hate myself for posting in this thread, but... Are you trying to clip to an object that has already been clipped or masked? That won't work. It will produce and object but that object wont be anything like what you were looking for. Are you using a later build of 0.46? I use clip (a lot in the original 0.46 release) and I've had only 2 minor problems with several hundred clips. I clipped those two black shadows in the one you posted in the other thread without and problems, and this is in my crappy vista based inkscape.

Are anything of the items you are trying to clip clones paths, that are still locked to an original item? Did you try do the same clipping operation in new file to check if you file is corrupt?

EarlyBlake wrote:Did you try do the same clipping operation in new file to check if you file is corrupt?

EarlyBlake makes a very important point. If you're having all these problems with the same document, start again in a new document.

Also, I was going to PM you to look at this topic again - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1695. It may or may not be related to this.

It could be. All your problems could relate back to that. I'm not a developer so I can't say for sure.

It's working for me, even with all 3 items selected at once. When working on my own stuff, I never clip with more than 2 paths selected at once. I don't even clip groups. That could be why I don't have many problems.

One more thought you are not on a laptop like me are you? If it's a laptop it could be time to calibrate the touch pad.

Oh no Early, you can't get down on yourself. I think we're all here to learn more about Inkscape. And using myself as an obvious example, sometimes we get things wrong, while we're on our way to getting them right. Right?

To answer your questions:
Neither object in the group has been clipped or masked.
Neither is a clone, or linked to anything.
I'm using 0.46, the last stable release.

Ok, I just tried this clip in a brand new doc, and I get the same result. The group gets clipped when I try to clip as a group, but the clipping path seems to be left behind, you can still see it. And if I ungroup the 2 objects before doing the clip, they also appear to be clipped properly, but again, the clipping path (green circle) appears to be still there. And again, these are all in the same layer.

Honestly, I'm not sure if this particular problem with clipping is related to the other. If it is, it certainly is not obvious to me. However, I think there's a good chance that the problem covered in the other clipping topic is related to my mysterious single dots, which are applied far away from where I click. That said, I would not be surprised if they are all related. Just because I can't see it, doesn't mean it's not so -- especially with Inkscape, which the more I learn about it, the less I seem to know, lol!

Anyway, thanks for your time and attention, in trying to help me with both these clipping problems. I really appreciate it. Especially when I've been having these problems all along, since I've been trying to learn how to do clipping -- which honestly, seems to be such a simple thing, and no one else seems to have trouble with it. If anyone should get down on theirself, it should be me, lol So I'm doubly grateful for help

Well, we'll see what micro says, and maybe between the 3 of us, we'll figure it out....and certainly anyone else who wants to jump in, please feel free. Or maybe it's time to turn to the developers?
All best

Oops, how did you slip that reply in there?!

It's working for me, even with all 3 items selected at once.

Are you kidding? It's working for you? What could I be doing wrong

Ok so what exactly happens.

brynn wrote:Oh no Early, you can't get down on yourself. I think we're all here to learn more about Inkscape. And using myself as an obvious example, sometimes we get things wrong, while we're on our way to getting them right. Right?

To answer your questions:
Neither object in the group has been clipped or masked.
Neither is a clone, or linked to anything.
I'm using 0.46, the last stable release.

So what is the build date on you inkscape? My is the old one "Inkscape 0.46, built Apr 1 2008". It is under help --> about inkscape then look in the upper right hand corner of the box that pops up.

So see it if I under stand what is happening. You select 3 items do a clip and you still have the green and black item left as well as a new clipped object?

Edit: just to be sure. Close out of everything reboot your computer restart inkscape and open a new file and try clipping in there. See what happens. Don't even open your old file.

brynn wrote:Oops, how did you slip that reply in there?!

It's working for me, even with all 3 items selected at once.

Are you kidding? It's working for you? What could I be doing wrong

Seems like we must have different builds.

My build date is April 1, 2008.

So see it if I under stand what is happening. You select 3 items do a clip and you still have the green and black item left as well as a new clipped object?

Yes.

just to be sure. Close out of everything reboot your computer restart inkscape and open a new file and try clipping in there. See what happens. Don't even open your old file.

How will I get my 3 objects to try to clip, if I don't open the file? Oh, do you mean just try clipping in general, with new objects?

Yeah, after you reboot, open a new inkscaoe document draw a some stuff to clip and see if clipping works the way it should in the new document. I just don't want to you open the file that thing are acting freakie in.

Edit: Well so much for the different build idea. Are we on different operating systems? It don't see how you could be doing anything. Wrong maybe you had a corrupt file of a corrupt library inside inkscape.


Edit 2:One observation. In the file you uploaded below the green circle there are two purplish gray circles in a group. I ungrouped the purplish gray circles and did the clip with just the top two circle and it worked. Then I did the clip again, this time leaving the purplish gray circles in the group. It worked fine both times. One big difference. When I ungrouped the circles, it not only ungrouped the two circles also release the clip. It do not return the green circle but the clipped part of the circle returned.


Edit 3:One more note. Not related to the clipping thing But on your problems related to clicking on items. Some time I'll have stacks of 5 to a dozen paths on top of each other on the same layer, and no matter how may times I Alt click it just wont select some of the lower paths. I have to zoom in to select some of the lower paths. Even with just 3 paths in a pile sometimes I'll click right on part of a lower path that is sticking out and it wont select. I'll have to zoom to get to the lower items.

Edit 4:Hhhhmm it's been half an hour. Your computer is sure slow rebooting Might be time to upgrade.

Sorry for the delay, I had to take a quick break. I'll post this to let you know, in case you're still waiting. Then I'll edit with info, answers and comments. Thanks.

[Edit]
I'm on Windows XP Home SP 3, fully updated.

Ok, freshly rebooted, brand new doc, 3 objects in one layer, top one for clipping. Exact same problem. The clip appears to have worked, because it removed everything outside its borders. But the top clipping path appears to be still there. Oh, that was with the 2 lower objects not grouped. I tried them grouped, but same results. I also tried clipping just one object, same result.

Edit 2:One observation. In the file you uploaded below the green circle there are two purplish gray circles in a group. I ungrouped the purplish gray circles and did the clip with just the top two circle and it worked. Then I did the clip again, this time leaving the purplish gray circles in the group. It worked fine both times. One big difference. When I ungrouped the circles, it not only ungrouped the two circles also release the clip. It do not return the green circle but the clipped part of the circle returned.

Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

Edit 3:One more note. Not related to the clipping thing But on your problems related to clicking on items. Some time I'll have stacks of 5 to a dozen paths on top of each other on the same layer, and no matter how may times I Alt click it just wont select some of the lower paths. I have to zoom in to select some of the lower paths. Even with just 3 paths in a pile sometimes I'll click right on part of a lower path that is sticking out and it wont select. I'll have to zoom to get to the lower items.

Yeah, I've had that experience too. So I zoom when necessary. And I watch the fill/stroke indicator at the bottom left, to confirm that I'm selecting what I want to select. Of course everyone must select the wrong thing from time to time, especially when dealing with many layers or overlapping objects. But I don't think I could be selecting the same wrong thing every time.

I guess this does eliminate the possibility that this particular problem is related to the "Fit page to selection" feature, because I made sure not to use it in this experiment. (Although I still do think the other 3 problems are related.)

Maybe I have something set wrong in either Doc or Inkscape Props? I've looked before, but I'll look again. Is there anything in those Props that I should check for in particular?

AAAaaaaaaaahhh!!!
I found it. There is a setting under Clippaths and masks in Inkscape Prefs (not props): "Remove clippath/mask object after applying".

Ok, I know I must look stupid, but here's why I thought it should be unchecked. Early on when I was trying to learn clipping, I didn't quite understand the idea, and posted a topic asking what happened to the clipping path (clippath object) after the clip was set. The answer was that it's still there, it just becomes invisible, and when the clip is released, it shows up once again (my paraphrase, at least that's how I understood the answer that was posted). I thought it was a basic function of the clip feature to make the clipping path invisible, but that it's really still there. And that removing the clipping path was only an option. So I thought if I checked "Remove clippath object after applying", then if I released a clip, the clipping object would be gone, because it would have been completely removed.

So anyway, it looks as if we have solved this one, thank goodness!!
micro, you can stop trying to open the svg file now

Btw, what use IS it to have the clipping path not be removed?

[Edit for clarification]

[Edit again] I wonder if this affects the other problem? I'll test it.

brynn wrote:Ok, freshly rebooted, brand new doc, 3 objects in one layer, top one for clipping. Exact same problem. The clip appears to have worked, because it removed everything outside its borders. But the top clipping path appears to be still there. Oh, that was with the 2 lower objects not grouped. I tried them grouped, but same results. I also tried clipping just one object, same result.

Edit 2:One observation. In the file you uploaded below the green circle there are two purplish gray circles in a group. I ungrouped the purplish gray circles and did the clip with just the top two circle and it worked. Then I did the clip again, this time leaving the purplish gray circles in the group. It worked fine both times. One big difference. When I ungrouped the circles, it not only ungrouped the two circles also release the clip. It do not return the green circle but the clipped part of the circle returned.

Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

No, I don't think so.

brynn wrote:AAAaaaaaaaahhh!!!
I found it. There is a setting under Clippaths and masks in Inkscape Prefs (not props): "Remove clippath/mask object after applying".

Btw, why use IS it to have the clipping path not be removed?

Your kidding.... I know you're not.... Dunno I don't remember setting or unsetting it if I did.

brynn wrote:Btw, what use IS it to have the clipping path not be removed?

If you have 2 objects that overlap, the top one of which is transparent and you dont want the bottom one to be visible below it then you can clip the lower with the top. If you have it set to remove you have to duplicate the object first, if you dont have it set you can just clip...