laser etching help, n00b. conversion / manual draw?

ColdEagle · Postby **ColdEagle** » Sat May 14, 2016 4:11 am

hoping someone can help, been reading up & messing around with converting / creating images for a laser cutter however I think i'm getting lost in the detail.

In short I've been playing with two ideas - 1) using the trace bitmap tool / conversion option. or 2) manually draw the image into a layer, delete the under layer and use that.
Are either of these overkill? have i missed an option? which would be easier / produce a more refined result etc? would one put more stress on the laser than the other due to not clean / possibly incorrect cut / etch identifiers etc? The end result is basically to etch the designs onto materials etc.

either way how i understand it, image in> the paths created are essentially the required output for the laser, i think some need colour coding / thickness settings, correct?

some details of what I've been messing with:

The Path>Trace Bitmap option and I have a couple of concerns:
1) the output will need to be tweaked / cleaned up / smoothed - and when I attempt to do this either its not pretty. my go to image editing background is just "touch up / re-sketch" this section on screen but it doesn't work like that does it?

Given the above I don't think I can use the auto convert output without cleaning it up / editing. Am concerned a dummy run with the above would overtax the laser with incorrect fill options for "cut" / "etch" and multiple unneeded passes.

2) is there a simple way to convert from etch to cut or visa versa? I think the auto convert is taking bits incorrectly? how i understand it there must be two lines, one for start of etch and one for start of cut? if I remove the cut line does that solve the problem? <-- total n00b question here but it struck me the other night. - no paint for either option seems incorrect.

3) Given my total lack of knowledge with this, i was considering would it be easier to just load the image, add a layer on top and manually 'trace' the image resulting in the perfect outline then set each bit to etch / cut? (then deleting the under-layer before saving the output).

anyone any advice please?

Moini · Postby **Moini** » Sat May 14, 2016 5:04 am

Hi ColdEagle,

can't help with etching vs. cutting, and I guess the answer to that would depend a lot on the export file format you are using / the format the plotter you are using will accept.

The answer to whether manual tracing would be easier or harder than cleaning up the autotrace results, unfortunately, is also not a clear one:
It depends on your image, and upon how well you know to tweak the autotrace dialog settings and upon how skilled you are using the node tool to edit the paths.

Can you upload the image, so we can take a look and give more qualified advice?

tylerdurden · Postby **tylerdurden** » Sat May 14, 2016 6:26 am

Also, a lot depends on the laser cutter you're using. Please post the model and the method/settings you use to send files to the laser cutter.

ColdEagle · Postby **ColdEagle** » Sat May 14, 2016 8:16 am

Thanks for the replies tylerdurden & Moini , ill get the specifics r.e. the laser and update once i have a reply.

i was just asked to create the vector files from the base images and i guess they would deal with it, however id like to make it easier and just have it ready to go if possible. anything specific I need to ask?

What would help the base image or what I currently have in Inkscape? would it cause a problem if i PM'd these?

oh and for the record i have zero experience with this, give me a sketch pad any day - wait would a manual scan of a pen trace actually make this easier? any advise how to go about this would be greatly received.

Moini · Postby **Moini** » Sat May 14, 2016 10:22 am

ColdEagle wrote:What would help the base image or what I currently have in Inkscape? would it cause a problem if i PM'd these?

It would help us judge the complexity of the image, and whether it would be feasible to just trace them, or if autotracing will give any useful results with the kind of image you have there.
Doing that publicly will give more people a chance to check and give their advice. Some forum members do not accept PMs, but might still be able to help. It's up to you to decide if less people being able to help is a problem for you

Postby **brynn** » Sat May 14, 2016 11:46 am

If you use PM, you'll only be able to give us a link to it, because attachments are not available for PMs. And only 1 person will be able to help (as Moini mentioned). Or if you don't want the image to be seen publically, maybe someone would be willing to help privately, via email.

Or you could attach the image to this thread (or upload to a file sharing site) and as soon as we solve the problem, you can delete it. So that at least limits how many people might see it.

The choice of whether you trace "manually" with the Pen/Bezier tool, or use the automated Trace Bitmap, depends on 3 things (as I see it). 1 - how complex the image is; and 2 - how much detail the...oh, you said laser printer. I was just helping someone else who is using a cutter, so I had you mixed up for a minute.

Anyway, I guess a laser printer can handle almost any amount of detail. So it's only 2 things: 1 - how complex is the image, and 2 - how much detail you want for the end result. And once we can see the image, we can give you some more comments

tylerdurden · Postby **tylerdurden** » Sat May 14, 2016 2:51 pm

brynn wrote:...oh, you said laser printer. I was just helping someone else who is using a cutter...

They meant cutter.

Postby **brynn** » Sun May 15, 2016 2:52 am

Ok, well if it's a cutter, then you would need to consider how much complexity or detail the cutter can create. After a certain point, you might as well not bother with certain details, because the machine just can't cut that out of wood (or whatever material). Although I guess some of these CNC type of machines can do amazing things!

Thanks td!

ColdEagle · Postby **ColdEagle** » Sun May 15, 2016 4:33 am

hay, thanks all,
sorry for the confusion i did mean cutter, sorry its been a LONG week, thanks tylerdurden for catching that!

The images are fairly simple, and as long as it would cover the basic idea of the image i think this would be ok as i expect the 'sketch' feel would be lost anyway. I'm reluctant to link to the images for one reason; its supposed to be a surprise & i think the person who its a surprise for uses here, hence my unease.

Image Selection 1
Image Selection 2
Image Selection 3
Image Selection 4

Edit: host change.

Postby **brynn** » Sun May 15, 2016 5:57 am

I can't see them. Maybe because I don't have a google account?

ColdEagle · Postby **ColdEagle** » Sun May 15, 2016 5:59 am

hmm its not supposed to need one, ill rehost elsewhere, one sec. sorry!
done, hows that?

ShawnWDion · Postby **ShawnWDion** » Sun May 15, 2016 7:32 am

Using WAIFU2x http://waifu2x.udp.jp/

Medium scale x2 to get a png of twice the size with decent quality and using trace bitmap 2 colors this is what I got from the first one.

https://framadrop.org/r/8MojelPJND#ewW3 ... NUii8zJ28=

If it has a gray scale added go to 3 colors.

Only issue and it's fixable is the anti-alias effect on the image using break apart and difference they can be cleaned up easy (I converted all 4 files with Waifu2x and all the images we're clear)

If you want all 4 files converted let me know I'll send you a pm with the links as it would only take me a few minutes with the tool I'm working on.

Shawn

ColdEagle · Postby **ColdEagle** » Sun May 15, 2016 7:52 am

ShawnWDion, Dude that looks spot on, thanks!
pm'd for a couple of questions.

Really appreciate all of your help guys! - my mates nipped around to get the details on the cutter - i should have a response this evening.

Postby **brynn** » Sun May 15, 2016 9:59 am

Hhmm, well I'm not sure what ShawnWDion is doing, so I don't know if you still need help.

For these images, unfortunately I don't see anything that tilts the scale from drawing manually to using Trace Bitmap. Either way will take about the same amount of time.

I notice on images 1 and 3, there is a rough appearance to the edges, while in #2, the edges are very smooth. Do you want the rough appearance to show through in the etching? Or do you want it smoothed out? I see the trace that Shawn did smoothed out the roughness, somewhat.

ColdEagle · Postby **ColdEagle** » Sun May 15, 2016 10:02 am

any input is greatly appreciated,
to be honest id prefer the rough edges (its more of a hand sketch feel), but i don't know if it will make things much harder, as long as it'll etch id be happy.

ShawnWDion · Postby **ShawnWDion** » Sun May 15, 2016 12:29 pm

@brynn

I'll take care of it, not something hard to do and Ironically it's gonna give me test material at the same time for the multi-difference modifications I'm working on. So win win for ColdEagle and win for me xD

Shawn

ColdEagle · Postby **ColdEagle** » Mon May 16, 2016 11:34 am

brynn, would you be kind enough to walk me through your thoughts etc I would love to learn how to do this "properly" or "correctly" as I suspect I'll need to know this!

ShawnWDion has been extremely kind to help and I'm passing on the results to the person I got checking the make / model (still awaiting, the question of settings used threw them) of the laser to see what he thinks, before I present them to a hopefully ecstatic person!

Postby **brynn** » Mon May 16, 2016 12:17 pm

brynn, would you be kind enough to walk me through your thoughts etc I would love to learn how to do this "properly" or "correctly" as I suspect I'll need to know this!

Well, you were on the right track to begin with. Deciding whether you should use the auto-trace or manual trace. The manual trace will always give you the best detail. But you have to be mindful of how much detail the the laser etching can accomplish on whatever material you're using.

I've never used anything like a CNC or laser cutter before. But I'm somewhat familiar with woodworking. And I can imagine that some kinds of wood are more prone to splintering or chipouts, making certain detail very difficult. So if you can't achieve as much detail as you would gain by hand tracing, I would say, why bother, and just use the auto trace.

And you also have to consider your original raster image. It may be too detailed for auto-tracing. But it may also take forever to trace by hand. So maybe you need to choose a better or different original.

I recently wrote a series of tutorials about converting raster images to vector. While there are only 3 ways to do it (auto-trace, or "manual" trace with Pen/Bezier tool, or build the image with other Inkscape tools), there are many things to consider about your particular goal. Here is the introduction, which is sort of a master tutorial: http://forum.inkscapecommunity.com/inde ... article=52. It has links to all the individual tutorials. But you can browse through all the individual ones on this page (for convenience): http://forum.inkscapecommunity.com/inde ... cles;cat=6. They can completely stand alone, without the master tutorial.

Since I've never done any actual cutting or etching, I wasn't able to give any hints or tips about that part. But for the Inkscape part, everything I know is covered there. But if you have any comments or suggestions, please feel free to discuss with me. I want to make the tutorials as accurate as possible.

ColdEagle · Postby **ColdEagle** » Sun May 22, 2016 8:38 am

brynn wrote: Snip

Thank you very much for the detailed reply ill walk through and see how I get on, I should have some time next week.
Please excuse the delay I've been sick.

ShawnWDion · Postby **ShawnWDion** » Sun May 22, 2016 1:32 pm

I was trying something and I found out a neat trick using FotoSketcher 3.20 (A freeware)

For rough sketch looks on black and white dunno if this image would work well on a etcher however to give it a random feel of handmade this could be a valid option.

Shawn

I've attached a sample of Image 1, a remake of the one I posted.

ColdEagle · Postby **ColdEagle** » Sun May 22, 2016 11:31 pm

ShawnWDion wrote:I was trying something and I found out a neat trick using FotoSketcher 3.20 (A freeware)

For rough sketch looks on black and white dunno if this image would work well on a etcher however to give it a random feel of handmade this could be a valid option.

Shawn

I've attached a sample of Image 1, a remake of the one I posted.

Now I like that, ill have a play around and speak to the team r.e. this. let me get a coffee and go for my run and ill send you those promised files matey.
currently thinking ill go with the blocked 'neat' stuff and then consider this lovely handmade feel once we get to play with the laser.
once again really appreciate the help.

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