Hi,

when I ctrl+click a soft node I get an
automatic one (curve changed) then
a symmetric (curve changed) then
a hard node (curve hanged) (I guess this is the correct translation; French version call it a 'point de rebroussement' which is quite laughable imho)
a soft node (curve changed)

problems:

1) inconsistent with order of icons in "nodes bar"
hard, soft, symmetric, automatic

2) loss of information

proposal :
1) reorder nodes icons
2) use the following order

symmetric => soft (no loss)
soft => hard (no loss)
hard => automatic (lossy)
automatic => symmetric (lossy but only a bit as it oftens turns into a soft one)
to minimize loss of information

what do you think ?

Great, I didn't know one could change the node type with ctrl+clic!

v1nce wrote:French version call it a 'point de rebroussement' which is quite laughable imho

Oui ça c'est vrai que c'est un peu ridicule comme nom…
That's true it's a ridiculous name…

But the english counter-part ("hard point") is not very understandable either, what could it mean? Google translate proposes "Reversing point" as a translation of "Point de rebroussement", which is quite the way I would have translated it. The reason that Inkscape's french-translating team didn't translate "hard point" to "point dur" is unknown to me.

If I had to chose a name, I think I would have said "line-break point", or "folding point".

v1nce wrote:proposal :
1) reorder nodes icons
2) use the following order

symmetric => soft (no loss)
soft => hard (no loss)
hard => automatic (lossy)
automatic => symmetric (lossy but only a bit as it oftens turns into a soft one)
to minimize loss of information

what do you think ?

That would definitly be better!

Mathieu147 wrote:But the english counter-part ("hard point") is not very understandable either, what could it mean?

The (untranslated, original) interface of Inkscape uses these terms:

• cusp node (can have retracted (i.e. no) handles, or extracted independent handles)
• smooth node
• symmetric node
• auto-smooth node

See also the section of the manual about "Using the Node Tool-Tool Controls"

~suv wrote:

Mathieu147 wrote:But the english counter-part ("hard point") is not very understandable either, what could it mean?

The (untranslated, original) interface of Inkscape uses these terms:

• cusp node (can have retracted (i.e. no) handles, or extracted independent handles)
• smooth node
• symmetric node
• auto-smooth node

See also the section of the manual about "Using the Node Tool-Tool Controls"

All right, so «Point de rebroussement» is, in fact, the correct translation for "cusp node" which is a mathematical term. If you look the curve of Wikipedia's page, it quite makes sense of calling it like that.

If you want a specific type of node, why not use the shift + C, Y, S, or A shortcuts? Fewer keystrokes...

druban wrote:If you want a specific type of node, why not use the shift + C, Y, S, or A shortcuts? Fewer keystrokes...

thank you for the tip but ...your fewer keystrokes are harder keystrokes (my hand knows about ctl, shift, alt but that's about all)

and reordering the nodes to match the bar still makes sense.

~suv wrote:[*]cusp node (can have retracted (i.e. no) handles

retracted handles are EVIL

I mean "if selected nodes have retracted handles then 'fake' handles should be displayed so that it is easy to grab the real ones"

I know you can shift drag a cusp node to "get" the handle but I "always" get the wrong handle

~suv wrote:The (untranslated, original) interface of Inkscape uses these terms:

• cusp node (can have retracted (i.e. no) handles, or extracted independent handles)
• smooth node
• symmetric node
• auto-smooth node

See also the section of the manual about "Using the Node Tool-Tool Controls"

I just wanted to mention (since this topic is all about terminology, lol) cusp nodes are often called corner nodes. When I'm writing instructions in a message, I usually call them "cusp/corner".

v1nce wrote:I know you can shift drag a cusp node to "get" the handle but I "always" get the wrong handle

If you drag towards the side of the node where you want the handle, you get the handle for that side. If you drag perpendicular to the path, you could get either one.

Regarding the fake handle, I don't think it could work. Say there's a tiny X beside the node to indicate the fake handle. The moment you grab it, it becomes a real handle, and the path would instantly jump to reflect the real handle in the position of the X. So the only place.....well, I was going to say that the only place a fake handle could be....then I realized that there is NO place where a fake handle could be, for all possibilities, that didn't distort the path the moment it becomes "real".

Yeah, soft and hard nodes are a poor description. I mean, I can sort of understand it. But I assume there are French words for smooth and cusp/corner? The weird thing to me, is that the author of the manual is French. What does the French version of the manual say about the node names?

brynn wrote:If you drag towards the side of the node where you want the handle, you get the handle for that side.
If you drag perpendicular to the path, you could get either one.

I know that (I should say I guessed that because I don't always read the manual)
it kinda works.

brynn wrote:Regarding the fake handle, I don't think it could work. Say there's a tiny X beside the node to indicate the fake handle.
The moment you grab it, it becomes a real handle, and the path would instantly jump to reflect the real handle in the position of the X. So the only place.....well, I was going to say that the only place a fake handle could be....then I realized that there is NO place where a fake handle could be, for all possibilities, that didn't distort the path the moment it becomes "real".

X = fake handle
<>...X

start to drag fake handle to the right, the real handle appears
<>)...X

still dragging
<>-------O...X

still dragging, then release
<>--------------O...X

the fake node disappears coz it's not needed anymore
<>--------------O




if you release while node and real handle overlaps
<>)...X

then the fake handle remains to make the selection easy

I guess I don't see much difference between dragging a fake handle, and Shift + dragging a real handle. To be honest, I guess I actually think the retracted handles are brilliant! I don't think you'll be changing my mind.....sorry