I am getting more used to the Inkscape way of creating and adjusting gradients...it's pretty decent...

Be nice if, after Adding a new Stop, for that newly-added stop to be the active one. It's more logical than what I'm seeing, which is that the FIRST stop is made active, so that if you begin fiddling with colors, that's the one that changes, not the one you just made.

Unless there's a preference selection I'm not seeing, in which case...sorry!



many thanks for 048!!


i

Unfortunately there is no 'preference' option for this behaviour. The Gradient Editor constantly requires manual updates to to select a stop, on canvas editing requires one to "Double-Click" a Mid-Stop to have the editor update.

that's why I posted this idea here...is this the wrong place to make suggestions?

thanks!


i

Wishlist items are submitted to the bug tracker https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/

I think I remember this was reported before but I can't find it now. If it's not there you can submit it

AFAIU the Gradient Editor dialog is "deprecated" and to be fully replaced by the Gradient tool (once all features are implemented and accessible in the controls bar of the gradient tool (Keyboard shortcut g)).

The issue here is in the on-screen editing, after you double-click on the gradient path the new stop isn't selected, so you have to click on it the third time to select it.

~suv you probably know the bug tracker as the back of your hand, can you look if this is reported?

prkos wrote:The issue here is in the on-screen editing, after you double-click on the gradient path the new stop isn't selected, so you have to click on it the third time to select it.

Indeed - I missed to noticed because it didn't bother me to click again on the inserted gradient stop (I most often do that anyway to position the stop first, using some kind of snap).

prkos wrote:you probably know the bug tracker as the back of your hand, can you look if this is reported?

I'll update Inkcat's report (correcting my oversight), and search again for earlier reports...

vwanweb wrote:Unfortunately there is no 'preference' option for this behaviour. The Gradient Editor constantly requires manual updates to to select a stop, on canvas editing requires one to "Double-Click" a Mid-Stop to have the editor update.

Unlikely to be changed for the Gradient Editor - see related reports:
Bug #166524 “Gradient editor does not track selection focus” ("Invalid")
Bug #243396 “Feature Request: highlight gradient stop points” ("Won't fix")
Bug #243409 “gradient Offset value (in Gradient Editor) doesn't change while the selected gradient stop's point is dragged along the gradient (on the canvas)” ("Won't fix")

I am sorry to hear that. For some illustrators, that would be a deal-breaker in terms of getting them to migrate from Illustrator to Inkscape..but perhaps there are other, more important goals of the project which I'm not seeing.

thanks!

i

InkCat wrote:I am sorry to hear that. For some illustrators, that would be a deal-breaker in terms of getting them to migrate from Illustrator to Inkscape..but perhaps there are other, more important goals of the project which I'm not seeing

Can you elaborate? The Gradient tool to edit gradients on-canvas (will) offer(s) the same features as the Gradient Editor in the non-modal, floating dialog window.

prkos wrote:The issue here is in the on-screen editing, after you double-click on the gradient path the new stop isn't selected, so you have to click on it the third time to select it.

~suv you probably know the bug tracker as the back of your hand, can you look if this is reported?

Found it in the comments of bug #179830 “on-canvas gradient editor focus problems”

~suv wrote:

InkCat wrote:I am sorry to hear that. For some illustrators, that would be a deal-breaker in terms of getting them to migrate from Illustrator to Inkscape..but perhaps there are other, more important goals of the project which I'm not seeing

Can you elaborate? The Gradient tool to edit gradients on-canvas (will) offer(s) the same features as the Gradient Editor in the non-modal, floating dialog window.

Sure. The gradient tool as it now works in Inkscape 0.48, on a Mac running within X-11 is a medium-strength pain in the neck.

Granted, you can get it to work and it produces beautiful gradients. But the need to constantly have to click and re-click and sometimes you get bushwhacked because you forgot to click and re-click, then you notice that something you didn't want to change DID change, then you must undo and re-trace your steps, etc... this is an un-necessary layer of complication, hassle and headache which disrupts a smooth and effective workflow.

It sounds like a new gradient tool is planned. This might be great, but only if its behavior improves.

and I am talking about editing gradients using the Node tool...the icon is 2nd from the top, right underneath the black arrow tool and above the Tweak tool. I prefer this to the Gradient Editor, which is very klunky, tho it works ok.

Using the node editor to adjust gradients is preferred for me, because the nodes appear directly on top of the item containing the gradient I'm working on (or I can move it as needed).

In a nutshell: improving the behavior of this gradient tool greatly increases the effectiveness of Inkscape, while simultaneously greatly reduces the effort to use it.

that's just my 2 cents!

thank you for reading.

i

Did you actually try using the Gradient tool (keyboard shortcut 'g'), having the Fill&Stroke dialog open and docked, so you can change the color of the selected gradient stop immediately?

I don't really understand what is going on here: "But the need to constantly have to click and re-click and sometimes you get bushwhacked because you forgot to click and re-click, then you notice that something you didn't want to change DID change, then you must undo and re-trace your steps"... Do you select a stop, double-click it to open the Gradient Editor dialog to change the color there instead of just using the sliders in the Fill&Stroke dialog?

InkCat wrote:and I am talking about editing gradients using the Node tool...the icon is 2nd from the top, right underneath the black arrow tool and above the Tweak tool. I prefer this to the Gradient Editor, which is very klunky, tho it works ok.

Possibly this is a confusion about what is called what:

• Gradient tool:
  
• Gradient tool controls bar:
  
  
• Gradient Editor:
  
  
• Fill&Stroke dialog, used with the Gradient tool to change the color of the active gradient stop(s):
  

InkCat wrote:Using the node editor to adjust gradients is preferred for me, because the nodes appear directly on top of the item containing the gradient I'm working on (or I can move it as needed).

In a nutshell: improving the behavior of this gradient tool greatly increases the effectiveness of Inkscape, while simultaneously greatly reduces the effort to use it.

The gradient editing features you can use in the node tool context are a subset of those of the Gradient tool (which is the recommend tool for editing gradients, whereas the Gradient Editor - the floating dialog - is considered as 'deprecated').

yeah, the gradient tool (g) is what I am using and what I am saying happens where after adding a new node, any color changes you then make get applied to the first node in the gradient (denoted by a square).

i

~suv - in one of those links you provided to me, the poster describes a problem which is either closely-related, or identical to the one I'm having. It's the problem wherein he basically says the most recently-added gradient node is not the one which is immediately active relative to making adjustments, such as in color.

InkCat wrote:in one of those links you provided to me, the poster describes a problem which is either closely-related, or identical to the one I'm having.

Yes, as I also commented to the bug report:

Issue as originally reported:
> newly-added gradient node not active

Related to or duplicate of bug #179830 “on-canvas gradient editor focus problems”?
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/179830>

It took a while until I found the report, sorry. I guess it's also the one prkos was referring to in earlier comments.

~suv, I *GREATLY* appreciate your tenacity with this and other issues...it can't be easy.


i

InkCat wrote:...it can't be easy.

Yeah - I made quite a mess in trying to triage this issue... Bad hair days in a row?

i am all for improvements with the grdient tool and i know it can be frustrating to have things work differently than one expects, because the 'logic' of tools is determined by what we start out using....
But i really feel that the grads in Inkscape have a lot of functionality even as things stand. for example, using the dropper tool I can edit the nodes of a gradient using its own colours (if that makes sense) and pick and assign opacity as well. i can drag from the swatch bottom left to adjust the colour of each node on the fly and click the swatch to make fine adjustments in the fill and stroke dialog which is also where I can enter rgba hex if i want to.
As far as i can tell the gradient editor is superfluous already.
just my two cents.... and i am sure my workflow is different from someone else's....

druban;

good comments all. However, and with all due respect, the actual issue I tabled is one, not of designed-in functionality - which I think we all agree is very nicely-evolved - but of the behavior of the tool..the one you get when you hit the "g" key.

That behavior being that the most recently-added gradient node is not active; the first node is. This causes unnecessary clicking to re-select that which the program shouldn't have un-selected.

As for the logic of how tools work, I would not say that the way our first tool works defines the right way for that tool to behave.

There are conventions of long-standing in the world of graphics applications. These conventions are founded on an essential wisdom which comes out of understanding what makes good workflow. Graphics apps which respect these conventions will have good workflow; those which don't will have a choppy and disruptive workflow.

In particular, one of those conventions of long-standing is that the thing most recently created is considered to be active, and therefore will receive inteded to be made to it, such as adjustments in color, opacity, size, etc. This is universal across all types of apps: Vector, Raster, Graphing, 3D, Video, Sound...the list goes on.

Another way of saying this is that a newly-created object or control will remain active until the User de-selects it.

Inkscape's creators have done some amazing things with how Inkscape's tools behave, which are a significant improvement over their counterparts in Illustrator. However, they do it without chucking convention and the collective experience out the window. This is key.

A tragic example of changing things around to everyone's peril is Microsoft's recent re-arranging of its Office interface. Not only is it stupidly illogical, but it has left many experienced users completely baffled.

Bafflement is not a worthy mission of any computer software tool.

Evolution toward greater ease of use, is.

My personal view is that Inkscape is solidly on an arc such that it will be exemplary of how applications can be, and I think this particular gradient issue is a bug or a mis-coding of some kind, which I hope will be corrected on one of the next go-arounds.

thank you!

i

Thanks for your insights, inkcat, they are very informative. I am looking forward to the next release of inkscape along with you!

I may have been a colossal bonehead on this...'s ok...not the first time in life for me.

I have observed that using the "g" gradient tool, one can adjust the color by single-clicking on a node. Double clicking produces the Gradient Editor...the component I believe is deprecated.

It was my mistake completely, and I humbly apologize for causing a flap over this.


i

InkCat wrote:I have observed that using the "g" gradient tool, one can adjust the color by single-clicking on a node. Double clicking produces the Gradient Editor...the component I believe is deprecated.

Yes, the floating Gradient Editor dialog is deprecated and not needed for most use cases to edit a gradient (I had tried to ask you about your workflow earlier ;-) ) - but the other selection issue still does exist and needs to be addressed:

• Inserting a new gradient stop in the Gradient tool (on-canvas editing of gradients, g) does not activate the inserted stop.

There are several issues with selection(s) of stops in the Gradient tool, e.g. with stacked objects, and overlapping gradient stops at the end of the gradient (can't be selected nor dragged back to 'inside' the gradient). In those cases the Gradient Editor is helpful.

~suv wrote:I had tried to ask you about your workflow earlier )

yes, you did, ~suv.

for whatever reason, I didn't register your question, or didn't perceive that the g tool was not the same as the Gradient Editor. most likely, I only skimmed what you responded with..my fault for having done that!

Finally the lightbulb went off for me, and I believe that I get the distinction between the "g" tool and the Gradient Editor.

I can see the benefit the GE offers in moving nodes which can't be grabbed using the node tool. If the GE is on its way out, what is the proposed alternative for enabling nodes to be grabbed which, in the present "g" tool, might be hidden by other nodes?

i