Hi, and happy, bug-free, frustration-free, new year!

I set up the grid, both document and inkscape's to same unit (mm), then set the snap (to both) to "Always", then I tried to draw a rectangle: It snapped. Then I tried to move it, it didn't snap!
I spent a considerable amount of time trying to figure out how to make it snap, to no avail. Then a friend of mine that have used it in the past, found out I had to press 'Alt' to make it snap while moving.
Then I tried to resize the rectangle and guess what: It didn't snap even if I pressed Alt, Shift, Ctrl, Shift+Alt, Shift+Ctrl, Ctrl+Alt.
Why is it so difficult to make a function ...function properly? As a user, if I set up the grid and enable it, I expect it to work immediately. There was no info on the gid setup window that I had to press 'Alt' to make it work. And unfortunately it seems I don't have enough ESP abilities to find out how to make resizing it also snap using a different arbitrary key -if any. When we the users set it to snap it should snap with no strings attached!

So I downloaded a number of trials to find a program that works, including Coreldraw, Drawplus, Illustrator, end some less known. Surprisingly, only Adobe Illustrator did snap correctly and immediately without any guesswork, in all modes (place, move, resize). So, before I subscribe to Illustrator paying 37euro /month for the snap feature alone, is there any other trick that will magically make the program snap as it should when resizing too?

Snapping has a number of options.

I'd review the icons in the snapping toolbar to become familiar with the snapping modes, eg. to shape handle, center, bounding box, path, cusp node, rotation center, etc. The tooltips when hovering the pointer are often helpful.

I didn't know there is a snap toolbar, I found it and enabled all options and it works, thanks!

Still, asking a person who has enough experience, shouldn't be required in order to make the program work.

Making the program intuitive is the only solution.

P.S When snap is enabled the first time, all options should be enabled and disabling them should be optional -not the opposite!
Mentioning the toolbar and the keys on the snap setup window would be even better.

Justme wrote:When snap is enabled the first time, all options should be enabled and disabling them should be optional -not the opposite!
Mentioning the toolbar and the keys on the snap setup window would be even better.

That would be even more annoying.
When you don't know there is even a snapping option, and all the objects you move goes randomly here and there without a reason...
Much like the spiro-path on the pen tool. You toggle in the spiro icon by accident and there is not a noticeable indication why the node handles don't work anymore.

Lazur URH wrote:

Justme wrote:When snap is enabled the first time, all options should be enabled and disabling them should be optional -not the opposite!
Mentioning the toolbar and the keys on the snap setup window would be even better.

That would be even more annoying.
When you don't know there is even a snapping option, and all the objects you move goes randomly here and there without a reason...
Much like the spiro-path on the pen tool. You toggle in the spiro icon by accident and there is not a noticeable indication why the node handles don't work anymore.

Take my second "better" suggestion, which won't be annoying at all: In the snap setup window, there should be all the options including the toollbar ones and the keys. So no need to guess, search the interface, the manual, or ask someone. One developer minute of thinking about how to make it more intuitive, will save thousands of minutes of user frustration -and it took me seconds to think of this. Obviously there is no effort towards making it more intuitive at all.

Still, with all those options, I cannot do the simple thing that I want directly:
In my project I need to align different objects (mostly rectangles) side by side, both on their edges and to the grid. (All the objects are resized to grid units, so this is possible). I also need to be able to scale them on grid units.

Now, the only way to do this is with the following steps:

1. Select all objects,
2. Set stroke to zero,
3. Enable only the "Snap bounding box corners" button,
4. Do the placement and alignment,
5. Select all objects again,
6. Set outline to the previous value.

In other words, if the snapping function was able to ignore the outlines, this would be a single step (placement, alignment) and the result would be a very fast alignment on both the grid and the edges of shapes, with the center of each stroke line also aligned to the grid and to the edges, also being able to change its thickness without destroying the object alignment or the perceived size of each shape.
This is exactly what Illustrator does by default -it's obviously the most basic, intuitive and useful thing to do (but Illustrator has some other flaw which I haven't resolved and this is why I'm not using it yet).

You can switch to geometric bounding box in the preferences (Shift+Ctrl+P).
That is the very first setting in the list, at tools.

Using strokes?
Then I'm guessing the next one that will be confusing is the "scale stroke width proportionally with object" button...

Note
If you want the line width to transform with an object, you must toggle on this option using the icon icon that is in the Tool Controls when the Select Tool is in use.

http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Attributes-Stroke.html

This case you will need that untoggled.

Hi.

To overcome a lot of the "Inkscape noob frustration" I would recommend going through the tutorials (Quick Start) in The manual..

Take some time to study the keyboard shortcuts as well - you will discover a lot of features you can only dream of!

From your description you might be able to use the "align & distribute" feature? (Shift + Ctrl + A)

Good Luck
RGDS
Ragnar

ragstian wrote:Hi.

To overcome a lot of the "Inkscape noob frustration" I would recommend going through the tutorials (Quick Start) in The manual..

Take some time to study the keyboard shortcuts as well - you will discover a lot of features you can only dream of!

From your description you might be able to use the "align & distribute" feature? (Shift + Ctrl + A)

Good Luck
RGDS
Ragnar

Well, I want first to see if this software can do the basic stuff I need, efficiently, before investing time to learn more. In other words, to see if this is the right software for the job. Automatic alignment might or might not help in my case, but thanks anyway.

Lazur URH wrote:You can switch to geometric bounding box in the preferences (Shift+Ctrl+P).
That is the very first setting in the list, at tools.

That worked, thanks!

Lazur URH wrote:Using strokes?
Then I'm guessing the next one that will be confusing is the "scale stroke width proportionally with object" button...

You guessed almost right ...the button didn't have any effect (on or off), but after I downloaded the latest version (0.48.5), it did work.

I have seen this in other free/open software too, usually the functionality is there, but the wrong choices are made in the default settings and the UI ...which is pity.
BTW, if the software was truly open, Inkscape users could help design a far better UI.

Anyway, glad to know that it can do this basic stuff, even if we had to dig deep and re-wire it.

Inkscape's snapping is a very sophisticated and complex tool. If you aren't familiar with vector graphics, it does take some time to understand. It probably took me a year or 2 before I fully understood and could use it effectively (I was a complete graphics novice). But once you get to that place, it is wonderful!

One of the problems that new Inkscape users often face, is having all the snap options enabled at the same time. That means Inkscape tries to snap to everything in sight! In my experience, it's best to have only the options you need, and disengage all the other buttons. In a complex image, I sometimes adjust the snap options every 2nd or 3rd step I take!

I think once you have the options configured properly, it will be a single step to snap the rectangles. Switching to the geometric bounding box, as Lazur suggested, will allow you to skip the steps of removing and replacing the stroke.

I'm not sure if technically these are rectangle shapes or rectangular paths. But if I need to make a grid, something like it sounds like you're doing, I convert the rectangle to path, and snap to cusp nodes. That also bypasses the stroke width and aligns the path precisely.

Anyway, if this hasn't been posted in this thread (maybe it has, I didn't read closely) the manual can tell you everything you need to know

http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL ... pping.html

Justme wrote:I have seen this in other free/open software too, usually the functionality is there, but the wrong choices are made in the default settings and the UI ...which is pity.
BTW, if the software was truly open, Inkscape users could help design a far better UI.

Anyway, glad to know that it can do this basic stuff, even if we had to dig deep and re-wire it.

Yeah, I second that. Inkscape is just awful.
I mean, when would I finally find a piece of sw that would fit my needs?! Inkscape is definitely not that glove. It`s so made for someone else and it`s simply not tailored for me. I wish developers had asked me how to do it - and what I can tell you is - you`ll be all much happier with my edition.

p.s.
@Justyou
How good you are in re-wiring Illy or PS? I`ll need a hand or two.

brynn wrote:It probably took me a year or 2 before I fully understood and could use it effectively (I was a complete graphics novice).

This is what frustrates me, knowing that it should have taken you (and me) minutes, not years. That difference is the difference in the current vs the desired (and feasible) level of intuitiveness.

brynn wrote:I'm not sure if technically these are rectangle shapes or rectangular paths. But if I need to make a grid, something like it sounds like you're doing, I convert the rectangle to path, and snap to cusp nodes. That also bypasses the stroke width and aligns the path precisely.

Mostly rectangle shapes, and some other custom shapes, but the solution of the geometric bounding box enabled in the preferences, fortunately seems to work perfectly so far.

brynn wrote:Anyway, if this hasn't been posted in this thread (maybe it has, I didn't read closely) the manual can tell you everything you need to know


The fact is, that we people are awful in organizing things, in exercising common logic (which is far from common) and in setting the right priorities. These are the human weaknesses that prevent the creation of truly intuitive software.
But we have to more choices:
1. To actually use the current knowledge about usability in order to do a proper usability study and develop an intuitive UI,
2. To let the users decide themselves, by suggesting improvements, partial or full solutions and finally vote for the most intuitive and efficient UI possible. This second choice is the easiest to implement.

Maestral wrote:p.s.
@Justyou
How good you are in re-wiring Illy or PS? I`ll need a hand or two.

Well, I guess not very good, as most of my knowledge and experience is on other irrelevant sectors (as3/stage3d programming and electronic design) although I have used PS a lot for many years for photography (I'm new in Illustrator), but It depends on what you need.