I've been using Inkscape for the past 6 months and I've come to a few conclusions. These are my personal observations but my comments should be taken seriously.

1. The Layers palette is woefully inadequate for serious vector work. I've been using Illustrator and CorelDRAW for years now and I can see this is the biggest issue with Inkscape by far.

A. Cannot select objects or paths through the Layers palette. Complex series of objects need to be layered on the canvas and doing this in Inkscape is too time consuming to bother anymore. I mean, I have to worry about the number of layers before I even bother creating my paths?! Why can't I simply create multiple layers and simply select my paths and then assign them to the layer I choose? Is it too much to ask that I be able to create multiple layers at once and then assign objects to them without worrying when to create layers for these objects?

2. Cannot create layers without being forced to name them. This is really annoying. I hate being forced to name my layers before using them. In Illustrator and CorelDraw...I simply create my layers and I'm done. If I need to rename them later I can do so at my choosing. In Inkscape...I'm forced to name the layer otherwise I can't do the work. Am I the only one complaining about this? Please get rid of this requirement.

3. Cannot drag and drop objects between layers. Can you imagine trying to Shift Page Up or Shift Page Down for objects if you have 10 to 12 layers?! Please. This makes it less likely I can use Inkscape for complex artwork. I should be able to drag and drop objects easily between layers without even thinking. Keyboard shortcuts are nice but mouse drag and drop is much quicker.

4. No Ctrl R to repeat actions like CorelDRAW. If I create a path and move it a certain distance...why can't I repeat the same action using a shortcut to perform the same thing?

These are my biggest gripes. Until these are dealt with I can't use Inkscape for serious graphic work and need to return to CorelDRAW and Illustrator. Wake me up when these are addressed. Til then...have fun using Inkscape...which is good... but still not prime time ready. In my opinion.

These are my biggest gripes. Until these are dealt with I can't use Inkscape for serious graphic work and need to return to CorelDRAW and Illustrator. Wake me up when these are addressed. Til then...have fun using Inkscape...which is good... but still not prime time ready. In my opinion.

Hmmm.

Why can't I simply create multiple layers and simply select my paths and then assign them to the layer I choose? Is it too much to ask that I be able to create multiple layers at once and then assign objects to them without worrying when to create layers for these objects?

It's true, that afaik, multiple layers cannot be created in a single click or step.
But you CAN draw a line and assign it to a layer -- ie - 1) draw line, 2)Shift + PageUp Or better yet, draw it in that layer to begin with!

OR, you could set up a default.svg file, so that whenever you open Inkscape, that file already includes however many layers you set it to have! (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=162)

In Inkscape...I'm forced to name the layer otherwise I can't do the work. Am I the only one complaining about this?

You could number (rather than name) them ie -1) Layers menu > Add a layer, or from Layers dialog, click giant plus sign (+), 2) type a digit, 3) Enter.
Well, this is the first complaint that I've heard about this.

I've never used the programs that you've named, but I assume it just takes one click to create a layer? I can see where that might be a nice feature, where you would click "add layer", and it's automatically created and numbered. You're welcome to add a new feature request (wish list "bug") at Launchpad! (But search first, because there might already be one. If so, add your comment, or click "This affects me too!" button.)

Cannot drag and drop objects between layers. Can you imagine trying to Shift Page Up or Shift Page Down for objects if you have 10 to 12 layers?! Please. This makes it less likely I can use Inkscape for complex artwork. I should be able to drag and drop objects easily between layers without even thinking. Keyboard shortcuts are nice but mouse drag and drop is much quicker.

Maybe you could alter your workflow slightly, and draw the object on the layer you want, to begin with? Yes, drag and drop sounds nice, but Inkscape is not there yet. Again though, please feel free to submit a new feature request "bug report".

No Ctrl R to repeat actions like CorelDRAW. If I create a path and move it a certain distance...why can't I repeat the same action using a shortcut to perform the same thing?

Again, Inkscape is just not there yet. And again, please feel free to submit a new feature request. Meanwhile, you can set the step distance (as it's called in Inkscape). Then each click or keystroke moves by that distance. Perhaps another case of altering workflow slightly, which I think is probably necessary when learning any new program?

The bottom line is that Inkscape is an Open Source program. This doesn't JUST mean that it's free! It means that it's created by all volunteers, who are developing Inkscape all on their own time. It means that new features are added, often according to a developer's particular interest, rather than what most Inkscape users desire. However, it also means that YOU can help develop the program, whether you have code-writing skills or not. As I've mentioned, you can submit new feature requests yourself. And if you're really motivated to "give back" (for the privilege of using this really great vector graphics program) you can report any bugs you may have found, yourself.

Yes, there are performance issues. Yes, it's susceptible to crashing. And yes, imo it IS buggy. But to me, if I set these things on a balance with having a free program the caliber of Inkscape (which in many important ways rivals those big expensive programs that you mentioned, even though it's current version is 0.48 (not even 1.00 yet)), that I can actually have a hand in developing (even if it's just reporting bugs and new feature requests), Inkscape wins every time. (Plus, I love the gui.)

I would suggest not trashing Inkscape just yet. Give some thought to slightly altering your workflow, as well as to submitting some new feature requests. Maybe you would even like to share your clearly abundant graphic/artistic skills/experience by becoming involved with a forum somewhere?

All best

DorothyFan1 wrote:I've been using Inkscape for the past 6 months and I've come to a few conclusions. These are my personal observations but my comments should be taken seriously.

1. The Layers palette is woefully inadequate for serious vector work. I've been using Illustrator and CorelDRAW for years now and I can see this is the biggest issue with Inkscape by far.

What version of Inkscape are you using? I'm using 0.48.

DorothyFan1 wrote:A. Cannot select objects or paths through the Layers palette. Complex series of objects need to be layered on the canvas and doing this in Inkscape is too time consuming to bother anymore. I mean, I have to worry about the number of layers before I even bother creating my paths?! Why can't I simply create multiple layers and simply select my paths and then assign them to the layer I choose? Is it too much to ask that I be able to create multiple layers at once and then assign objects to them without worrying when to create layers for these objects?

1. Open the menu Layer->Layers... dialog.

2. Press the + button to add a layer; then press RETURN to accept the default name.

3. Repeat.

DorothyFan1 wrote:2. Cannot create layers without being forced to name them. This is really annoying. I hate being forced to name my layers before using them. In Illustrator and CorelDraw...I simply create my layers and I'm done. If I need to rename them later I can do so at my choosing. In Inkscape...I'm forced to name the layer otherwise I can't do the work. Am I the only one complaining about this? Please get rid of this requirement.

You don't have to name them if you use the Layer->Layers... dialog.

The biggest problem is that SVG does not have layers. Inkscape emulates layers with groups; each layer is its own group. This places some restrictions on they that other drawing software does not have to worry about (since they create they own version of what a layer is). Until then, I afraid you're stuck with these restrictions.

@DorothyFan1:

The layer functionality is indeed somewhat limited. Many feel the same as you do, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bu ... tag=layers. Just be patient, because at some point in time a developer will stand up and improve this.

@ Brynn: Thanks for advocating Inkscape and OSS. Well spoken!

Another issue...how can Inkscape be taken seriously if it can't import AI or CDR files? This is a big no no in my book. SVG capabilities which *only* emulates layers is another trick I don't like. Inkscape needs to fully support AI or CDR files to really be taken seriously as an alternative to commercial software as well as getting people weaned off those commercial products.

All those art files but can't be converted to SVG. Now that's a bummer. What are we supposed to do with all those AI and CDR files? We can't even use them in Inkscape. Oh...but what about porting them to PDF and then converting them to SVG? Is that option available? No it's not.

What I find really strange is when I try to create paths in Inkscape and immediately try pasting them into Illustrator or CorelDRAW. No dice. Not even this works. I really don't understand this. When I create paths in either Illustrator or CorelDRAW I can immediately paste the paths into the other programs.

What about dragging and dropping the paths into Inkscape? Can I do this? Not even that. What about opening multiple files in the same window? What about creating multiple PAGES in the same document that gets saved in the same file? No...I can't do this either.

Really. I see Inkscape's promise but the frustrating thing about it is seeing the limitations of the program up close pretty much right off the bat. There's no way to go but up for the program but given the problems and the limitations of Inkscape...this is going to take at least 5 years before it gears up for serious contention. I'm not joking. That long...*five years*. Think about that.

Why should Inkscape support closed proprietary formats? It would be more reasonable IMO to ask Adobe and Corel to support open standards, such as SVG . This would give everyone the interoperability they need.

You're complaining about copy & paste, and drag & drop. But have you ever asked Corel to support Mac OS X, or Linux? Or to import SVGs without crashing? Wouldn't that be reasonable if you pay $500 - $1000? Inkscape just does that. Every program has it's limitations. Some you can live with, and some you can't.

Now please file bug reports, or just stop using Inkscape. If you feel more comfortable using AI or Coreldraw, then go ahead.

CorelDRAW X3 supports importing and exporting SVG files. Unfortunately Inkscape doesn't correctly save to the SVG format because when I do this and open them in CorelDRAW X3, the paths are flying all over the artboard. When I create and export SVG files from CorelDRAW X3 into Inkscape...everything is fine. So this tells me Inkscape is way behind CorelDRAW in fully supporting the SVG file format. Rather than it being the other way around.

If I had to use Inkscape on a flash drive and then bring my artwork into Illustrator I'd have to do the following contortions:

A. Create SVG file in Inkscape. Must save file with NO layers since Inkscape doesn't fully support this in SVG.
B. Open SVG file in CorelDRAW X3. Break apart the paths, combine and resave file in AI 9 format.
C. Open in Illustrator 9, choose either RGG or CMYK...(which Inkscape doesn't support CMYK btw) which fully supports sublayers...which CorelDRAW X3 doesn't. (Neither does CorelDRAW X5 I hear). Regroup layers to sublayers in Illustrator 9. Print file and save in Illustrator 9 format.

Scanning bitmaps into Inkscape is also not possible. I have to do this in CorelDRAW X3. So just from this example...you can see how much Inkscape is lagging behind its experienced competitors. I have no doubt "some day" Inkscape will catch up. And yes, I intend to stick with CorelDRAW and Illustrator until Inkscape strengthens the layer capabilities and matches the competition. Again, I think this will probably take 5 years.

> So this tells me Inkscape is way behind CorelDRAW in fully supporting the SVG file format

From the information you've provided me I cannot judge. It could also be that Inkscape is exporting according to the standard, and that Corel's import filter is at fault.

AFAIK There's no concept of layers in SVG at all. So your statement in point A is false. Have you tried viewing your files in e.g. Opera or Batik squiggle? These are believed to be the most compliant to the SVG standard. Also, have you tried to save as "plain .svg" in Inkscape?

Yes...I've tried SVG standard format and it still doesn't work correctly. So saving SVG files from Inskcape is out of the question. Which means I can't depend on Inkscape when creating files to be read by commercial software. If I needed to work on vector artwork in a hurry and had to do something quickly...I could use Inkscape on a flash drive. And save SVG files there but cannot use them in either CorelDRAW or Illustrator.

The bottom line is any vector art created in Inkscape cannot be read correctly on commercial software titles like CorelDRAW X3. Period. Any SVG work has to be on Inkscape and stays only in Inkscape. But if you want portability...I would have to stick with the commercial titles for now. BTW, I don't buy the argument that Inkscape can't be made to import AI or CDR files. If Inkscape accepts PDF...which is an Adobe extension, they can do the same for AI or CDR.

dvlierop wrote:Now please file bug reports, or just stop using Inkscape. If you feel more comfortable using AI or Coreldraw, then go ahead.

ditto

Unfortunately Inkscape doesn't correctly save to the SVG format because when I do this and open them in CorelDRAW X3, the paths are flying all over the artboard. When I create and export SVG files from CorelDRAW X3 into Inkscape...everything is fine.

This tells ME that CD can't read svg properly and that inkscape can. Funny how that's the opposite of your interpretation.

what i don't understand is why, if you have programs that do exactly what you want, you need another one, viz. Inkscape?
if CD's and AI's SVG output is so good, why are you even looking elsewhere? :suspicious:

DorothyFan1 wrote: BTW, I don't buy the argument that Inkscape can't be made to import AI or CDR files. If Inkscape accepts PDF...which is an Adobe extension, they can do the same for AI or CDR.

Well.... AI and CDR are both closed proprietary formats that Adobe and Corel 1) do not release information on without a NDA and 2) will not let their code be used in an opensource application. PDF is a different story. Apples and Oranges there.

Also, as a final note, Inkscape is version 0.47 which means it is NOT a full release, which means you should know it is development code and to criticize it is (IMOO) more due to your expectations than the state of the software.

-Rob A>

DorothyFan1 wrote:CorelDRAW X3 supports importing and exporting SVG files. Unfortunately Inkscape doesn't correctly save to the SVG format because when I do this and open them in CorelDRAW X3, the paths are flying all over the artboard. When I create and export SVG files from CorelDRAW X3 into Inkscape...everything is fine. So this tells me Inkscape is way behind CorelDRAW in fully supporting the SVG file format. Rather than it being the other way around.

Oh, please… As the person who initiated the whole Corel DRAW reverse-engineering thing I know for sure that Corel doesn't handle SVG the way it should. As a matter of fact, both Corel and Adobe forgot about SVG ages ago and stopped maintaining support for SVG.

Now, let's get everything right.

AI. Inkscape imports AI files created by Adobe Illustrator 9 and above if you enabled the Compatibility checkbox when saving AI. That writes AI data in a compatible way using PDF which can be opened in Inkscape. Alternatively you can install UniConvertor and use it for converting AI 8.x and older (that is, EPS based) to SVG. It's a free open source convertor.

CDR. Inkscape uses UniConvertor to open CDR files. Because UC supports only paths with flat fill and stroke, this support is somewhat limited, but should work for many illustrations, set for printing (because for commercial printing you outline everything anyway). As soon as other features are supported in UniConvertor, we will make use of them automagically.

Scanning bitmaps into Inkscape is also not possible.

Oh come on. Path > Trace Bitmap has been around since forever. Inkscape will create very reasonable vectorized data, ready for print. Any prepress engineer will tell you that. No centerline tracing, alas, but otherwise it works fine.

until Inkscape strengthens the layer capabilities and matches the competition. Again, I think this will probably take 5 years.

In your imagination maybe Yes, you maybe like the way it sounds when you say "In 5 years maybe", you probably think it makes you cool or something. But really, this is so far from reality that I wonder if you came from a parallel universe. Over last four-five years Inkscape gained twice as many features as AI and CDR rolled in one during same timeframe. It's a fact. Feel free to ignore it, though.

P.S. I agree with your points regarding work with layers. But in reality it takes one interested programmer and maybe a week of work to fix all of that. That programmer just isn't around, that's all.

dvlierop wrote:AFAIK There's no concept of layers in SVG at all. So your statement in point A is false. Have you tried viewing your files in e.g. Opera or Batik squiggle? These are believed to be the most compliant to the SVG standard. Also, have you tried to save as "plain .svg" in Inkscape?

Diederik, you are looking at this from developer's POV. But people who use Inkscape for illustration, not web development, really couldn't care less. If it says "layer" then it's a layer, even if it's a group with an attribute in Inkscape's namespace really Let's face it: our Layers dialog is a disgrace. We need someone's week or two of attention to streamline it.

Yes, it tend to prefer a dev's POV. Sorry for that . But Inkscape does save it's layers. So the claim that Inkscape doesn't fully support them is still false AFAIK.

The layer dialog would be a nice candidate for a bounty I guess. It's too small a task to warrant a GSOC project.

dvlierop wrote:So the claim that Inkscape doesn't fully support them is still false AFAIK.

No, Dorothy never claimed that Inkscape doesn't support layers fully

How about this: instead of using the "layer" metaphor and model that has been so popular since Photoshop introduced it in PS3? so long ago why don't we - as a very creative group of people - come up with an organizational paradigm that's different and that everyone else will adopt in the future. Something that will have people saying, "I want to work in an Inkscape-like (somethingsomething) environment in AI or CD but they are just so far behind the curve...
Should we dare to innovate?

druban wrote:How about this: instead of using the "layer" metaphor and model that has been so popular since Photoshop introduced it in PS3? so long ago why don't we - as a very creative group of people - come up with an organizational paradigm that's different and that everyone else will adopt in the future.

Go ahead and invent In the mean time fixing layers dialog should be done.

druban wrote:How about this: instead of using the "layer" metaphor and model that has been so popular since Photoshop introduced it in PS3? so long ago why don't we - as a very creative group of people - come up with an organizational paradigm that's different and that everyone else will adopt in the future. Something that will have people saying, "I want to work in an Inkscape-like (somethingsomething) environment in AI or CD but they are just so far behind the curve...
Should we dare to innovate?

I dream of an object manager à la Cinema4D !!!

ivan

There is *no* option in Adobe Illustrator 9 for SVG compatibility mode. I checked. You may be referring to compatibility mode in *Inkscape* when saving SVG files to be read by other vector programs like AI or CDR. I've tried this option and even this is not read correctly by CorelDraw. Illustrator 9 can only *export* to SVG format.

prokoudine wrote:Inkscape imports AI files created by Adobe Illustrator 9 and above if you enabled the Compatibility checkbox when saving AI. That writes AI data in a compatible way using PDF which can be opened in Inkscape.

So look for a compatibility option when saving as AI format, not when saving as SVG

Well, my Inkscape SVGs are showing great in Opera, the Renesis Thumbnail Handler, Firefox, and Batik. The faulty software is obviously llustrator or Corel Draw.

DorothyFan1 wrote:There is *no* option in Adobe Illustrator 9 for SVG compatibility mode.

That's very much because i was referring to AI documents compatibility via PDF. When you save an AI file, there is a checkbox to preserve compatibility. What it does is additionally writing all data in the file in PDF representation. Inkscape will read that bit of your AI document and import it, with preview, like a regular PDF document.

Artist here, both conceptual and digital. Inkscape a new program? Corel and Illustrator are old pros for us, sketching with 'em a long time. And that is the problem, Inkscape has a long way to go with brushes, colors, Wacom pens and of all things simple a box or circle staying in one piece if dragged around. Now that's wierd. But, I don't fault Inkscape, the pen you know that's the deal breaker, maybe tell Suse or Ubuntu to get going with it. About drawing, Xara is the real deal for freehand vector sketching, if not trashed for web site stuff.