Text size problem

[Ink123]

Hello everyone, my first message here on the Inkscape forum.

I am learning the software at work actually to draw some signs. Instead of asking for the creative cloud Illustrator, I asked for the open source solution and they installed it to me without asking question, great. 

But I am trying to figure out something with the text height. Usually in AutoCAD I enter a text height value in mm, for instance, text at 19mm it looks roughly like this (distance between 2 red lines), it's my usual gauge to say, this is 19mm text or 25mm text etc using the capital letters.



But in Inkscape it's different, the height of the text is relative to a box surrounding it. So in order to get my usual 19mm height, I need to scale the text with a 19mm object close to it such as the yellow box. Then i write my sentence and depending of the position of the letter, the H value will vary.



It's complicated for me to assimilate this because the H value is associated to the height of the text box instead of the letter itself.

I can't find any other point of reference then checking the text with the yellow box.. I don't know too much about typography.. but this is not very productive..

If you guys have some tips so I can learn how to work with text?

For example bellow:

1. The text following the yellow box is the original +-19mm with a inkscape box of +-21mm
2. Duplicate to red box, by changing the letters, the H value is not 21mm no more, it's now 28.658mm, the capital letters are still at the same height as the original yellow box.
3. Same thing with the blue and green boxes Blue, the H value is different, the capital letters are still at the same height as the original yellow box.
4. Then Cyan is a duplicate of the green box where I replaced the H value back to 21mm and it's reducing the text even smaller then the original.




I find this so confusing.. I spend a lot of time last week learning Inkscape, like 7 full days, I need to understand this.


Thanks

[Lazur]

Hi.

The H spinbox is a general one for all objects, describing the visual bounding box of your text object.
Unless you type in X only and scale it to 19 mm, the X-height of the text won't be 19 mm.
For the latter, -theoretically- you'd need to use the text tool's settings.

Typography wise a font is designed with no scale factor/physical units in mind. There is the "X" height which is mostly referenced upon as the largest capital letter size describing more or less the height of a written line.
However each glypth uses an em square. That's an artificial bounding box, or with a better reference that's the size of the canvas upon the glypth was designed.
Then, once you type in a line height, the em height of the text will be scaled to the given size.
Problem is, the em height can be anything relative to the X height and there is no connection whatsoever between the to. Thus with two different fonts the same 19 "X-height" will produce rather different sized letterings.

Also, as far as I could see inkscape seems to use px as the letter size (em-size).
Which is again problematic becaues of it depends on a resolution setting. Inkscape is hard-wired to 96 dpi unlike illustrator's 72 dpi so typing in with the same text height into those two programs separately you can end up with different sized letters when printed.


Honestly not sure which cad program you are using but they scale by the em size and not by "X" height in general.
Also, the fonts may not be designed precisely for such a use in mind. Even if you are using Isocpeur or Osifont, the same text (em) height won't
make them magically appear exactly with the same X height or right on scale as iso3098 would suggest.

Part of the reason why I was starting this topic earlier.

[Ink123]

Ok thanks Lazur, that's a bit what I expected, what you tell me.

For now I think I'll copy/paste my text manually, the one adjusted to my yellow square, I think it's stable enough. I don't understand everything about the DPI adjustment of the software but the size of my page is the size of my sign so the height of my text is adjusted with that.

I will have to investigate this in AutoCAD also and read your other thread right now.

Thanks,

[brynn]

Welcome to the forum!

First I should tell you that you've joined at the very end of this forum.  Tomorrow we will begin the transition to a new forum.  Of course we will finish the topic you've started here.  But if you have future need for support, there will be a link on the index page of this forum, to the new forum.

I think at least part of your confusion is that you have the slash in your text.  And the slash is extending below the baseline of the text, and that's what's making the bounding box larger than the size you set for the the text.

I'm not exactly clear what you're describing with the yellow box and red box, etc.  It sounds like you might be seeing the effects of using the default visual bounding box, which includes the stroke width in giving the size of objects (in W and H fields).  So it might benefit your learning to switch to using  a geometric bounding box, which ignores the stroke width and gives the true size of any object.

Inkscape Preferences > Tools > Geometric Bounding Box

I'm also not clear when you say "Inkscape box" if you're talking about the bounding box (the dashed line rectangle around a selected object) or if maybe you're dragging out a text box with the Text tool.  You will definitely want to avoid making a text box with the Text tool.  That creates a type of text called Flowed Text, which is strictly an Inkscape feature, and such text won't show up outside of Inkscape.  To create regular text, just click once on the canvas, and then start typing.

To make your text a particular size, you need to use Text tool control bar, and either select a size from the dropdown menu, or type in a size, if the size you want isn't available.  Whatever size you set there, is the size of your text, regardless what the H value is, on Selection tool control bar.  If you decide not to use a geometric bounding box, you can still be assured that your text is the right size, by using the Text contol bar, and that dropdown menu.

Also you can change which units your text is using in Inkscape Preferences.  Double-click on the Text tool, to open Inkscape Preferences directly to the Text tool settings.  Since a few verstions ago, Inkscape was made to use mm by default, it's probably already set for mm, but you can double-check.

You can check the size of text using the status bar (bottom of the window).  When text is selected with Selection tool, it tells the size of the selected text.

And finally I'll say that text is definitely not Inkscape's strong suit.  (In my opinion, despite all the work that has been done lately, it seems to be getting harder and harder to use.  Sadly.  Maybe someday it will all come together - I hope it will.)

(Oops, I see you posted while I was typing.)

[Ink123]

Hello Brynn ok for the new forum noted.

I know I am not explaining things too well and sorry for that, my capacity to explain things in English is limited at some point and I don't know the names of many features in Inkscape (or windows) to name them properly or to explain things right. Doing my best :p

Now I am just waking up from the "properties menu not displaying" because of dual screen.

I need to produce something ASAP, I will have to read your reply later today. );

[flamingolady]

hi and welcome to the forum.
This is a little bit off your answer, but it may help you.  It's just a little hint about working with text, not primarily what you need, but it has tripped the best of us up when they implemented this later version of inkscape.  You may not be getting desired results if your text boxes aren't set as you may expect.  Spacing is all off if the '?' is selected and the line spacing isn't set at 1.0.  It does affect the height. See attachment.

text.png
(182.92 kB . 1366x768)
(viewed 91 times)

[Ink123]

Welcome to the forum!

First I should tell you that you've joined at the very end of this forum.  Tomorrow we will begin the transition to a new forum.  Of course we will finish the topic you've started here.  But if you have future need for support, there will be a link on the index page of this forum, to the new forum.

I think at least part of your confusion is that you have the slash in your text.  And the slash is extending below the baseline of the text, and that's what's making the bounding box larger than the size you set for the the text.

I'm not exactly clear what you're describing with the yellow box and red box, etc.  It sounds like you might be seeing the effects of using the default visual bounding box, which includes the stroke width in giving the size of objects (in W and H fields).  So it might benefit your learning to switch to using  a geometric bounding box, which ignores the stroke width and gives the true size of any object.

Inkscape Preferences > Tools > Geometric Bounding Box Ok I did that it might help eventually, good thing to know.

I'm also not clear when you say "Inkscape box" if you're talking about the bounding box (the dashed line rectangle around a selected object) Yes this is it or if maybe you're dragging out a text box with the Text tool.  You will definitely want to avoid making a text box with the Text tool. Understood That creates a type of text called Flowed Text, which is strictly an Inkscape feature, and such text won't show up outside of Inkscape.  To create regular text, just click once on the canvas, and then start typing.

To make your text a particular size, you need to use Text tool control bar, and either select a size from the dropdown menu, or type in a size, if the size you want isn't available.  Whatever size you set there, is the size of your text, regardless what the H value is, on Selection tool control bar.  If you decide not to use a geometric bounding box, you can still be assured that your text is the right size, by using the Text contol bar, and that dropdown menu.

Also you can change which units your text is using in Inkscape Preferences   Double-click on the Text tool, to open Inkscape Preferences directly to the Text tool settings.  Since a few verstions ago, Inkscape was made to use mm by default, it's probably already set for mm, but you can double-check. Ok nice it's working, adjusting the text in mm in preferences and I can now match any text height with the height setting in the text control bar (Shift+Ctrl+T), that's great.

You can check the size of text using the status bar (bottom of the window).  When text is selected with Selection tool, it tells the size of the selected text.

And finally I'll say that text is definitely not Inkscape's strong suit.  (In my opinion, despite all the work that has been done lately, it seems to be getting harder and harder to use.  Sadly.  Maybe someday it will all come together - I hope it will.) I was able to do my work today.. so I am happy for the moment.

(Oops, I see you posted while I was typing.)

[brynn]

Glad you got your work done