Help with hatching on mech drawing - freecad related

[brynn]

Ok, I can explain how to do those things.  Unfortunately, I have to log off right now.  I should be back tomorrow evening or night.

[brynn]

Yes, grouping is used to keep objects together, for whatever reason.  I was just curious why you had a group of 1 (a few of them).  That means there's only one object in that group.  In eg for hatching5.svg, select one of the long, skinny rectangles on the sides, and look at the status bar.

I thought we had eliminated all the groups a long time ago.  So that would mean you had created the groups of 1 on purpose.  But now that I think about it, I think I had noticed before that you had forgotten to ungroup previously.  So probably the groups of 1 were already there, and you didn't make them.

There's more strangeness with groups as well.  The circles are each a Group of 3.  That would mean there are 3 objects in the group.  But when ungrouped, there appears to be only one object there, identified as a Group of 1.  If I use Objects menu > Objects to sort it out, I see that the other 2 objects are each a Group of 0.  I have no idea how that is even possible.  No clue why Inkscape would even allow it (not to mention how that actually works, haha!).  To my knowledge, there is no way to make a Group of 0, and I don't know how it happens or what it means.

In the interest of having the cleanest file possible, it's probably better to ungroup those.  The groups of 0 can't be deleted on the canvas because they can't be selected.  But using the Objects dialog, you can select and delete them.  Note that the white circle underneath the circle with the pattern fill is also a Group of 3.  So once you ungroup them both, and get rid of the groups of 0, you can group the pattern circle and the white circle, if you like.

It's going to be harder than I expected to have a white background as part of the stripe pattern.  It can be done, if necessary.  But as far as making it easier to create different stripe patterns easily, that would make it much harder.

In Inkscape, making a stripe pattern is not as easy as you may have found it in the cad program.  In Inkscape, the length and angle of the line determine the spacing.  The patterns that you are using are made using the Rectangle tool....  Or I guess that's assuming they were made with Inkscape.  I think you said you got them from an Inkscape extension?  And it looks like they are simply long, skinny rectangles, rotated. 

Actually, I was a little surprised.  Just looking at the stripe pattern of the main large object, I thought they were 45 degrees.  But not quite -- they're 41.319 degrees!


But I can still show you how to make the bottom object, which is now a rectangle, into a shape which consists only of what's visible.  First, if you want that bottom rectangle to show through the holes, you need to make holes in the rectangles.

1 -- Ungroup those 2 circles, if you decided to group them (after getting rid of the groups of 0)
2 -- Select one of them and Duplicate
3 -- Hold Shift and click on the top rectangle (you should have one circle and one rectangle selected now - check status bar to confirm)
4 -- Path menu > Difference
5 -- Repeat that process with the 2nd rectangle and another circle

Now, if you move the remaining circle out of the way, you should be seeing through both rectangles.  But be sure to put the circle back, if you move it to take a peek.

6 -- Repeat the above process with the other circle/rectangle instance

Now to remove the bulk of the bottom rectangle.

7 -- Select the large main object and Duplicate
8 -- Hold Shift and click on the bottom rectangle (now you should have bottom rectangle and the large main object selected
9 -- Path menu > Difference

Now, if you move everything out of the way, the screenshot shows what's left.  Depending on which circle you originally duplicated in step 2 above, and which circles you used in the Difference operations in step 4, you might have a while filled circle left.  Somehow I ended up with a pattern filled circle (not sure how).

Anyway, of course, you can't leave everything out of the way to do the last steps, because there really aren't any landmarks where you could snap them precisely back into place.  Fortunately, Inkscape provides a way to select things that are hidden behind something else, because you'll need it.

10 -- If what was originally the bottom rectangle, whatever is left of it, isn't still selected, select it again
11 -- Path menu > Break Apart  (I know you can't see what this does.  But you could make a duplicate to the side, where you don't move the other pieces back into place, so you can see.)
12 -- Deselect everything
13 -- Position the mouse below the remaining circle, and not on it.  (Or if you're working on the top rectangle, put the mouse above the circle.)    This is going to select that rectangle on which the circle currently is resting.
14 -- Hold the Alt key while you click 3 times (the first click selects the top rectangle, 2nd click selects the one below it, and the 3 click selects the one you need to get rid of) (if you watch the left end of the status bar, known as the Style Indicator area, you can see by the fill and stroke what you're selecting, as you go down)
15 -- Release Alt key.  Now hold the Shift key and click on the remaining circle (status bar should say that 2 objects are selected, and the bounding boxes should indicate which ones).  Note that I learned how to do this before the Objects dialog was invented.  You had to depend on your memory, the status bar, and the bounding boxes as clues to be sure you had the right objects selected.  Now I guess new users will start to depend on the Objects dialog for this.

16 -- Ok, assuming the correct objects are selected, do Path menu > Intersection.  Your circle should still be there.  If it's not, something went wrong.
17 -- Select the circle, hold Shift and click the leftover edges of the original bottom rectangle (2 objects selected)
18 -- Path menu > Combine, or Grouping them would work as well.  This keeps them together, so you don't accidentally misalign them.

Now, when you go to repeat this for the top circle, that little rectangle which is remaining from the original bottom rectangle will still be by itself (resulting from the Path menu Break Apart in step 11).  So repeat steps 12 through 18 for the top circle.


For your last question about making the stripes closer together on the sides, to give the appearance of a hollow tube in cross section, that could only be done manually.  Not by using a pattern, but by drawing a series of paths (or long, skinny rectangles) and manually placing them.  If you know some mathematical way of calculating how they should be placed, then it would be possible to place them according to that.  But still manually

[MongrelShark]

There's more strangeness with groups as well.  The circles are each a Group of 3.  That would mean there are 3 objects in the group.  But when ungrouped, there appears to be only one object there, identified as a Group of 1.  If I use Objects menu > Objects to sort it out, I see that the other 2 objects are each a Group of 0.  I have no idea how that is even possible.  No clue why Inkscape would even allow it (not to mention how that actually works, haha!).  To my knowledge, there is no way to make a Group of 0, and I don't know how it happens or what it means.

With the lower circle. Remember it was 3 parts and I joined them. I may or may not have grouped them together before joining nodes. I can see how that might cause incorrect properties to appear. Looks like I should be paying more attention to the status bar down the bottom. I have hardly been looking.
No idea about the other groups. Pretty sure I ungrouped twice before doing anything else. Looking around I see many objects are still groups of 1 and require 2 more ungroupings to become nodes. I'll pass this on the the freecad drawing dev. It may be useful... I'm still not completely understanding the significance of groups, but reading up on basic mouse use etc has revealed some interesting stuff, like double clicking to enter a group.... There are so many layers within layers in this program.... I see how useful it is, but I think this may be part of my problems selecting stuff.
 
Anywhere thats got a good explanation and examples of all the terms like layers, groups, nodes, paths etc etc? I think learning more here would help me a lot.

In Inkscape, making a stripe pattern is not as easy as you may have found it in the cad program.  In Inkscape, the length and angle of the line determine the spacing.  The patterns that you are using are made using the Rectangle tool....  Or I guess that's assuming they were made with Inkscape.  I think you said you got them from an Inkscape extension?  And it looks like they are simply long, skinny rectangles, rotated.

Actually, I was a little surprised.  Just looking at the stripe pattern of the main large object, I thought they were 45 degrees.  But not quite -- they're 41.319 degrees!

Yep. I have looked into patterns quite a bit. Tried making some from scratch with average results. Have used the ones from the tutorial (which are made using the python script that came with the tutorial) , and will try that script to make some custom ones once I have a better idea what I want. Never got the eggbot extension working, but not fussed as the hatches where a bit rough looking anyway.

But the patterns in eg for hatching5 are all default inkscape patterns I adjusted with node tool then copy pasted where I need a matching pattern. The angles where all eyeballed... I was a concreter for 13 years and have been engineering for 8. Over 3deg out is pretty rough for me ;p I literally just (5 min ago) repaired a bent carpenters square by eye and got it within 0.015% first try
I noticed when copying pattern properties,  sometimes the little x copies into a new spot and I have to move it onto the other little x to get the patterns to align. Is there a way to snap the 2 x's together a bit faster than zooming in and mouse manipulating? or even group them all as one? i managed to box select circle or square for 2 matching patterns once, and adjust them together, but can't seem to repeat it.

Re white (or black) background. I'm happy with my duplicate method. Gives me quite a lot of freedom to adjust stuff and its quick and easy. Although would be great to be able to change the color of the stripes. Would prefer a clicky way to do this, but could xml edit if I knew where to find the #number. Had a quick look in xml. there was a lot of data for the pattern! Maybe there is a better way? How would I make the lines blue on a red background for eg?

Anyway, of course, you can't leave everything out of the way to do the last steps, because there really aren't any landmarks where you could snap them precisely back into place.  Fortunately, Inkscape provides a way to select things that are hidden behind something else, because you'll need it.

I've been using layers here. I just make a spare layer and make it invisible. Then move stuff I want to preserve for later there until i have a better place.
I have been working through the actual images I need for manufacturing and patents etc (which I obviously can't publish online) and I found it very useful to make a layer for each part, and sub layers of parts with background patterns etc. Makes it easy to use one drawing for multiple purposes.

I've also selected the top object, moved to lower in z stack, then shift selected the new top object Its not too bad.


The difference tool is handy too! Like freecad boolean operations In this case all I would do is make the hole in the rectangle. As the lowest pattern rectangle actually represents a surface on the inside of a pipe. I may want to do images of each part or an exploded view or something. So makes sense for the drawing to be as close to the 3d/actual part as much as possible.

Some great instructions there. Thank you. I went through it all for the practice.  Even though some of it went a bit further than I needed.

I did find some issues with alt+left clicking. It didn't seem to do anything, not change in status bar... But the status bar gave me a good tip and I was able to scroll through layers with mouse wheel and alt+shift click to select other layers. Was really easy to just get a bottom layer too!

Really curious why after doing the difference on the circle and rectangle. You said to put the circle back where it was? Was this just because i wanted to cut through 2 rectangles and would need the (other) circle again. Or is it like a freecad Boolean where if I move one of the original 2 parts, after doing the operation, it changes the result part?
I must admit to having lost track of all my circles.. I have a white one and a pattern one I can now move away. as well as 2 rectangles with a hole so i can see the desired pattern in a lower layer.
I cant seem to find the circles used to make the holes in the rectangles. Did they get consumed in creating rectangles? Or have i lost them in a group or layer?

Also is the oder of selection important  with the path booleans (union difference etc etc)? I know in freecad if I want to subtract one part from another part for eg. It's important to select the bit you want to keep first and the bit to be cut away second. Things like difference and union are not so fussy, but sometime selecting the wrong part first will give you a problem down the track.



I have attached a new version. eg for hatching 5.2. I think I have found all the errors and fixed them. I have made the backgrounds all work how I like and finished it off by putting stuff in appropriate layers.

I have also added some dimensions. This was way over my head a few days ago. Came out ok. Wouldn't be too bad if I only had to add 1 or 2 dimensions. Could be time consuming to do many though. I think I still have room for improvement.

1. I can't seem to get font size to change in the text and fonts panel. Its stuck on 32. I try changing it and I can't apply (button grayed out). When I click away then click back. font size is 32 again. As you will see in attached doc. I want closer to font size 4... I had to scale it by dragging a corner with select tool +ctrl


2. my blue line and arrows are not very well done and are hard to get in the right place consistently across the document. I had some luck with align tools, but a few features I wanted missing. Mainly the ability to attach nodes to other nodes or lines. I made the 5mm dimension pretty good. But left a few problems with the 30mm dimension. I'm probably approaching this all wrong.

3. can I save an arrow as a clip art (publisher98 memories just came flooding back lol) or something. So I can re use them for speedy dimensioning. Or even better all 4 lines, 2 triangles and text. So all I have to do is click the 2 nodes I want to dimension and alter the text.


4. Is it possible to make 2 things. Say a pair of parallel lines. And make them stay the same? ie change one line and have the other change to match? So they always stay the lame length and parallel?

5. Also interested if there are any horizontal/vertical constraints that stay on? ie I can use the paraxial pen constraint to draw, or hold ctrl while moving a node. and I can align tool nodes to make a diagonal horizontal or vertical again if I move something badly. But can I make it stay that way so I can't easily change its angle again? 

I have added some screenshots to try and be clear about what I need. Is it possible to make a re-usable template to do this?

I also added an example of freecads dimensioning. Took about 30 secs to add those dimensions in freecad. Usually I would just do it that way before exporting .svg or .pdf. But sometimes I want to change stuff in inkscape or sometimes the extra bits/bugs freecad makes, prevent me from doing the dimension I want. ie in this document I can't do a radius or diameter dimension on the circles for some reason.

[brynn]

With the lower circle. Remember it was 3 parts and I joined them. I may or may not have grouped them together before joining nodes. I can see how that might cause incorrect properties to appear.

If you did not ungroup them before you joined the nodes, yes, that could be the reason for the group of 3, where 2 of them are a group of 0.

Anywhere thats got a good explanation and examples of all the terms like layers, groups, nodes, paths etc etc?

There's a glossary in the manual, but it doesn't seem to be very comprehensive, to me.  http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Glossary.html  However, the manual is extremely well indexed.  In providing support for other users, I go back and forth between the table of contents:  http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Glossary.html and the comprehensive index:  http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/ix01.html  to find whatever I need.

But you pretty much have to already know the vocabulary, before you can find things in the manual.  That's one of the bigger complaints about that manual, is that it's not well suited to help beginners.  (We had started down a path to create a manual more suited for beginners, but it seems to have stalled out lately.  Maybe it could be kickstarted pretty soon, I don't know.)

The angles where all eyeballed... I was a concreter for 13 years and have been engineering for 8. Over 3deg out is pretty rough for me ;p I literally just (5 min ago) repaired a bent carpenters square by eye and got it within 0.015% first try

I guess it's kind of surprising that you're making mechanical drawings by eyeballing!  But I'm not familiar with that field.  I guess in thinking of instructions I've seen for assembling household items, such as a shelf or desk or other things like that (put tab A into slot B, and etc), it's not that surprising, haha!!

I noticed when copying pattern properties,  sometimes the little x copies into a new spot and I have to move it onto the other little x to get the patterns to align. Is there a way to snap the 2 x's together a bit faster than zooming in and mouse manipulating? or even group them all as one? i managed to box select circle or square for 2 matching patterns once, and adjust them together, but can't seem to repeat it.

Hhmm, I can't seem to snap the pattern controls to each other.  They will snap to other targets though - such as nodes or guides, probably grids as well (although I didn't test).  But that's not particularly helpful.  What you would need is for guides to snap to the pattern handles, ideally.  That's probably a bug, although I haven't looked it up.

I guess the best you could do is drag a guide or 2 to where it visually intersects with a pattern handle, and then move the pattern handle slightly to snap to the guide intersection.  Then the other pattern handles will snap to the guide intersections.

As I said before, it may be that the cad program is easier to use for this.  I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a feature request for better pattern controls.  And of course you could make such a request yourself, if there isn't one.  But who knows when someone might be interested to create those features.

How would I make the lines blue on a red background for eg?

Actually I've looked further into making a pattern with a particular background color, and it doesn't look like it can be done with Inkscape.  As far as I can tell, you always have to have a duplicate object underneath.  I did make a pattern using a solid background, but as soon as it was converted to a pattern, the background went transparent.

But you can change the stripe color.  Just select an object which contains the pattern.  Do Object menu > Patterns > Pattern to Object.  You might have to look around the canvas to find it, but you'll find the line somewhere.  Select it, change the color, and then do Object menu > Patterns > Object to Pattern.

I suppose there might be a way to change the color faster using XML Editor or a text editor.  Let's see....  Wow.  It's complicated, but I did find a way in the XML Editor, to change the color.  The keys are (1) take note of the pattern number (I was testing with a custom pattern, because it might not be possible to change a stock pattern color this way) and (2) expand the defs node in the XML Editor (on the left side of the XML Editor).

I found the pattern number in the defs section, but when I expanded that item, it showed some more pattern numbers (numbers which don't appear in the pattern menu in Fill and Stroke dialog).  With one of those numbers selected, the Value of the Style attribute (right side of XML Editor) showed yet another pattern number.  Back to the left side of XML Editor, I found that pattern number.  Expand that one, to find yet another pattern number.  The Value of the Style attribute for that one, shows a hexcode (#123456).  And changing that hexcode changed the color of the pattern on the canvas.

There's a good chance there's an easier way.  Maybe using a regular text editor, rather than the XML Editor??  But I don't have time to research right now.

Sure, you can use layers to make selections easier.  But Alt + click is always going to be easier and faster.  Practice makes perfect, as they say 

I did find some issues with alt+left clicking. It didn't seem to do anything, not change in status bar

If you use Alt + click, and the status bar doesn't change, it means either there's nothing underneath, or there's an identical object underneath.  You can tell the difference by looking at the scale/rotation handles/arrows.  If there's an identical object underneath, the arrows won't change.  That's because you just selected the object underneath.  If there's nothing underneath, then the scale/rotation handles will change.  It's just as if you clicked a 2nd time on the object, on purpose, in order to change the handles. 

Really curious why after doing the difference on the circle and rectangle. You said to put the circle back where it was?

I said:

Now, if you move the remaining circle out of the way, you should be seeing through both rectangles.  But be sure to put the circle back, if you move it to take a peek.

I think you probably decided not to do the last few steps, but that last circle was going to be needed at the end.  If you didn't do the last few steps, you would not need that circle.

I cant seem to find the circles used to make the holes in the rectangles. Did they get consumed in creating rectangles?

Yes!

Also is the oder of selection important  with the path booleans (union difference etc etc)? I know in freecad if I want to subtract one part from another part for eg. It's important to select the bit you want to keep first and the bit to be cut away second. Things like difference and union are not so fussy, but sometime selecting the wrong part first will give you a problem down the track.

In Inkscape, it's not selection order, but z-order.  The object on top is that one that will do the "cutting", and it will always disappear.  As you said, it's sort of consumed during the operation.  Or sometimes I say it's "sacrificed".

I have also added some dimensions. This was way over my head a few days ago. Came out ok. Wouldn't be too bad if I only had to add 1 or 2 dimensions. Could be time consuming to do many though. I think I still have room for improvement.

Did you do that "manually"?  I think there's either an extension or LPE to help with that.  Let's see if I can find.....  Oh yeah, here.  Extensions menu > Visualize Path > Dimensions.

1 -- Unless you need some feature in Text and Font dialog, which is not on the control bar (in the main window) I would not use the dialog.  The text which size you want to change needs to be selected.  Use the dropdown menu, or else you can type the number into the field.  Press return after typing in a value.  (oops, I guess they call it Enter key these days, instead of Return - I'm from the typewriter generation)  (If you really want to use the Text and Font dialog, the text needs to be selected to make the Apply button active.)

Sometimes it doesn't change for me either.  If it doesn't change, try highlighting the entire selected text (with Text tool) first.  Change the font size,  and then it should change.  Note that the text tool, in general, is not super sophisticated.  If you need the text to be very sophisticated, use a desktop publishing program like Scribus.

2 -- If you want to make your own arrowheads, you can do that using Markers.  Or you can use existing Markers.  Select the path, then Object menu > Fill and Stroke > Stroke Style tab > Markers.  Choose whatever arrowhead you want, for whichever end of the path you want. 

Markers can be anything you want.  Draw, let's say a star.  Object menu > Object to Marker.  Look in the the marker menu in Fill and Stroke > Stroke Style tab, to find a new star marker.  Markers always come out black from the menu, but if you change the path color, the marker color will change too.  Inkscape places a marker at whatever nodes you choose.  If the path has 15 nodes, there's the start node, the end node, and 13 middle nodes.  Choose them from whichever menu, as needed.

Note that when you change the width of the path, the marke size changes exponentially, for some reason.  So sometimes you have to be creative with custom markers, if you need to change the path's stroke width.  Or else do it like you started, making the arrowheads as separate objects.

To answer your question about aligning objects, it sounds like it's about time for you to learn about Snapping.  I think I mentioned it before, but just in case, I can't do any better than the manual does in explaining it:  http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Snapping.html  In the situation you showed with the triangle and the end of the path, you'll want to set it up to snap nodes to the segment midpoint.  (Not sure if the manual covers snapping to midpoints, since it might be newer than the last manual update.  But once you start to get s napping, you'll get it on your own.)

3 -- I think I already answered this.  Use markers.  Or the Dimension extension.  Here's an external extension too, but I don't know if it works or how well it works.  https://github.com/Rutzmoser/inkscape_dimensioning  It might not even be the same thing as you need, but it sounds like it.

4 -- Cloning would make them stay the same length.  Change the parent and the clone automatically changes at the same time.  If they start out parallel, they should stay parallel.

5 -- I'm not sure if I understand what you're asking.  Normally things don't move unless they're selected.  It is possible to lock objects (or layers).  But it's tricky with locked objects, because they only way to select them again after they are locked, is with Objects dialog.  But I'm not sure that's what you're looking for.  Could you show an example?

Is it possible to make a re-usable template to do this?

You mean with the document-like background?  Oh yes.  Here's a tutorial:  http://libregraphicsworld.org/blog/entry/using-templates-in-inkscape  Basically, you make the template however you want it, and save it as an SVG file, in the user templates directory.

[MongrelShark]

Lots of great tips there! I'll be re-reading that all weekend


Really excited to see some measure extensions. had limited success in 5 min try. Will come back to that. They could be the answer i need if I can change its behavior and look a bunch. Its pretty slow doing it as is. Probably more steps than just drawing it from scratch... eg: path>visualize path>dimension, delete extra dimension, move to correct place, edit half the line lengths, colors and widths, path>visualize path>measure, move text, change font, create font background and colors and fix arrows to match my other arrows in use since last year...
vs
use pen with snap on, hold ctrl and draw 3 sides of a square, draw 1 more little line and clone, add arrows, add text and text bakground. Done.

But it will be awesome if I can change that and get the behavior described below to work...
I'm looking for a click/select 2 points then drag measurement system... Using menu drop downs in not really a good option as its so slow and hard to click on the correct dropdown etc.


Markers look really interesting too. Will have a play after posting this

 Clone will get used a lot. Thats awesome!! If I can mirror clone, a lot of stuff will only need to be half drawn :D

Snapping!!! This is what I need!  I could not get this to work at first. Been through everything on the first 2 pages of google result for [how to snap inkscape] they all show the same stuff but I could not get it to work for 2 hours of trying. Have checked its turned on in setting and on toolbar etc etc.

I eventually got it sort of working in unreliable fashion. Another few hours later and I'm still not understanding the constraints used or what should be on or off. Its added in a bunch of confusing behavior and now I'm back to really struggling to just select stuff i want or even click in the place I want at full zoom! gah.. I'll get it eventually. Freecad was like that too at first.... But once i understood the format a tiny bit it all started making sense.

If there is a detailed guide on these things with layman language and explanation on terms that would really help a lot. Sounds like I might have to apply the open source philosophy and create these myself? I've exhausted my search engines.... Freecad was the same too. 2 years later I am almost ready to do the tutorials I needed at the start.

But much much worse the snaps don't stick. Its just putting stuff down there, and not actually attaching it. Say I snap a line endpoint to to a triangle midpoint. then move the triangle. The line does not get longer. I can group or multi select and make it move the line, but thats undesirable..  I only want to move the snapped node. Not the whole line... Ideally the other endpoint on the line would be snapped to something else which is in turn snapped to something else, which is snapped to the drawing of the part which is locked and cant move. So the only option will be to make a line longer. Because everything else will be constrained.....

I'll try and explain again using how it works in freecad. I don't need it to work the same in inkscape, but suspect it could, as techdraw is basically made from inkscape code. Anyway anything equally fast and easy would be fine. (I just did 5 documents in freecad yesterday, then tweaked in inkscape a good bit. So far this is the fastest way and I will try to make a tutorial once I have some stuff sorted more in my head. Its actually a pretty powerful partnership, freecad and inkscape)


Normally I would just select 2 points to measure/define. Then click a button and the dimension appears (usually in a bad spot) with default appearance according to my settings..

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Then I just "grab" (click and drag) the number part and put it where I want. All the lines adjust accordingly. Everything stays square and parallel. The extra bits of line at the top of the offset lines don't change, the dimension line follows the text if i move it out. And the arrows stay exactly where they should...

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this is what I am talking about when i want to lock stuff down.... Lock node or a snap point so the spot the dimension lines attach to the part drawing are not going to move when I drag other parts/nodes/handles of that object. Or lock the length of a line and one endpoint, but leave the other end free to move.... I know ink-scape is not cad, but I think this feature would likely be available. I just don't know what it would be called.....

I want to lock attachment of the blue standoff lines to my part. Lock the arrows to the standoffs at a certain point from the end. Leaving the bit between arrows and part free to change length.
I think I have figured out most of it. But I can't get the snapped point to stick, and I cant seem to lock the length of a line segment.
If I could lock the extra length, lock both the 4 node snaps, and lock the dimension to part nodes. It would be pretty close to perfect with just 3 constraints.
even if I cant lock the line length. I suppose I could get rid of the little extra lines. Then i just need to be able to lock 2 pairs of node clusters together, and attach the text to the dimension line.

The end result should allow me to change the standoff length easily. Without changing any other dimensions or messing with the scale on my text, lines and triangles. To use a cad term, I want to limit the degrees of freedom. Which means to limit the amount of parts that can be moved (nothing to do with angular degrees in a circle). Down from over 20 moving things, to 2-3 things that can move per measurement line...

I want to be able to move the text too. If i can lock its center alignment with the dimension line but be free to drag it up and down the line, along with its white background. Without the z layers constantly re-ranging them selves. That would be a big bonus. (Any ideas on why my z layers and line widths are changing every time I move stuff would be very helpful!!)

But mostly I just want to change the offset length, without changing anything else and keeping it all attached. Only takes a sec to fix the text, maybe less if the snaps will lock.. But selecting 4-10 points and manually adjusting and re-snapping every time I want to tweak something is really slow and tiresome.

I have attached a new .svg with better 30mm dimension. Lets see if we can lock the other points down, so I can change the ofset with one drag...
By oftest i mean the distance the measurement line (the one with the text on it) is from the part.
we can loose the "tails" for now. Lets just look at 3 sided rectangle, arrows and text.





Also the alt+click thing still not working. It doesn't seem to do any action for left or right click. But it does change status bar info if i hold alt. According to status bar instructions I have to alt+scroll. Which is better because i can go back and forth. This may be an Ubuntu thing as alt is used a lot by the os. i was surprised pressing alt at all didn't pop me straight out of inkscape into OS features!

I also tried alt+D and again surprised it didn't start the first program in the os starting with d, but instead actually cloned the object. Then I tried it later and sure enough it started another program thats name starts with d.

I'm happy to look into this at a later date. For now I can use it ok I think it depends what part of the inkscape window I last clicked, as well as where the mouse is. This is really cool. Most Linux programs can't use alt at all for any function on Ubuntu. Because the OS has already taken it.

[MongrelShark]

Re markers.

Sort of what I am looking for. Except getting them in the right place and pointing the right way seems to have a few issues....
 I think faster to just draw them from scratch and attach some nodes.....

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[Lazur]

Check the latest de4velopment build -there is a new dimensioning line extension that can generate dimensioning lines that update with resizing the measured object.

Sorry for not following through all of this wall of text but it's quite a novel.

[Moini]

Lazur, can you explain a bit more about that new dimensioning extension? I don't remember having seen anything like that. Maybe the LPE is what you mean? http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Release_notes/0.93#Measure_Line_LPE

[brynn]

Yes, that's true that snapping only positions things - with precision (well, maybe relative precision, depending on your needs).  It does not glue them together permanently.  Let's say you have 2 paths, and you drag one node over and snap it to a node on another path.  If you later want to move those 2 nodes,  you have to select both nodes (by dragging a selection box, since by clicking you can only select the one on top).  Remember that both paths have to be selected first, before the nodes of both paths are available to be selected.  And also that you have to use the Node tool.

As I said, there's a learning curve for snapping.  It was probably a couple of years before I felt like I really, really understood it.

Yes, it's true that Inkscape is not a cad program and does not try to be.  There have been many requests for more cad-like features, but I suspect the developers aren't sure how to fulfill that request.  Devs don't want to make Inkscape into a cad program.  Likely these features would have to be added via extension, although I don't really know what the possibilities are.

I have to say, I'm starting to get tired of all the requests for cad features.  If people want cad-like features, why don't they just use a cad program?  I don't understand why they want Inkscape to provide those features, when cad programs already provide them.  Although I've never used a cad program, so I don't really know what they want.

It's possible that you might need to  make some kind of change on your system to make the Alt key work.  I know you do on Macs.  Oh right, you have to on Linux too.  Here try this info:  https://inkscape.org/en/learn/faq/#alt-key-doesnt-work-linux

I'm not sure about your trouble with Markers.  They always and only appear where there is a node.  If you want a marker at a particular place on a path, put a node there.  Markers don't exist without a path.  If you want for example an arrowhead, which does not point at the same angle as the path, you'd have to make a custom one, and draw it at the correct angle.

Or else just draw your own triangles and snap to the path, without using markers.

[Lazur]

Lazur, can you explain a bit more about that new dimensioning extension? I don't remember having seen anything like that. Maybe the LPE is what you mean? http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Release_notes/0.93#Measure_Line_LPE

Yes, lpe. My bad. Beta-tested it and added in some suggestions -now that the freenode channel is private, it'sout of my current scope.

[Moini]

Do you need help registering? I had to go through the process, too. If you know how, it's not that difficult.

[Lazur]

Getting offtopic on this.

Off-Topic: show

Thank you for your offer but it's rather laziness. Drafting like a workaholic these days for months now I haven't got much time to participate lately in such efforts -although with my ever unsatisfaction with the cad software I'm using I should really dig into foss programs.
By the way it supposed to be another vectors meeting this weekend right?

[Moini]

Off-Topic: show

So much work! I don't know about the vectors meeting, sorry. Brynn might. I haven't seen any announcements on the mailing list or on gitlab. I only know that the board meeting has been postponed to after the Hackfest. Don't know if Vectors will want to keep them together or not.