Not Saving Separate Dialog Dock Window

[RobM]

Hello! I love Inkscape and use it to generate vector files for CNC routing and laser engraving. My question is about saving / restoring a consistent dialog box setup on my side monitor.

I was able to set up a floating dock of several of the dialog boxes I use all the time (screenshot attached). With this window open on my side monitor, I can have the Inkscape drawing window maximized on my main monitor. My problem is that when I close and reopen Inkscape, the dialog boxes open but are no longer docked together (screenshot attached).

My Preferences -> Windows settings (screenshot attached) seem to be set up to save and restore my dialogs status properly.

Any getting my dialog boxes to reopen docked would be a great timesaver ... and greatly appreciated!

All the best,
Rob

[brynn]

Welcome to the forum!

Do I understand that you've somehow hacked Inkscape, so that the docking area is separated from the main window?  Or do you mean that you keep the Inkscape window sort of halfway on one monitor and half on another?  Or by "floating dock" do you mean that you're using floating dialogs, and you place them all on the other monitor?

If you've hacked on Inkscape, I'm not sure if you could expect those windows settings to still work.  Not unless you really, really know what you're doing.  In this case, you would need to consult developers.  I don't know if they could help.  But I know we probably can't help (as a user forum).

(Or if you do really, really know what you're doing, perhaps developers would be interested to see what you've done.  Because that looks like it would be a really nice feature!)

If you're keeping Inkscape part on one monitor and part on the other, or you're using floating dialogs, I would expect the window behavior settings to still work.  But with a big "However" that there appears to be some kind of bug or bugs when using Inkscape on multiple monitors, where dialogs seem to disappear (really they are just getting lost outside the screen area) or the dialogs just don't stay put.

You could try digging up those bug reports.  Maybe some workaround or even a fix has happened, since the last time I saw them?  I would try searching "dual monitor" or "monitor" or "multiple monitor" or something like that.  For Launchpad, it seems the fewer search words you use, the better.  It's not the kind of search where you can type in a whole question.  https://launchpad.net/inkscape  Or there's another relatively recent message in this forum about dual monitors, where I remember searching out bug reports.  It would probably be easier to search the forum, to be honest    (Although the title of the message might be something about missing dialogs, eventually the subject turned to the dual monitor.)

Edit
To contact developers, best would be the development mailing list (https://inkscape.org/community/mailing-lists/) but there's also a development IRC (https://inkscape.org/community/discussion/)

[RobM]

Hi brynn,

  for your quick response! I haven't hacked Inkscape ( wouldn't know how!), but I believe I found a documented feature that will be really helpful for organizing my dual monitor workspace. Here's what I found that got me started:

In Tavmjong Bah's online guide, in the Quick Start section, I found "The Anatomy of the Inkscape Window" at:
http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Anatomy.html

Near the bottom of this page, the Dockable Dialogs section includes: "The docked dialogs can be rearranged, resized (if space permits), stacked, and iconified. To move a dialog, Left Mouse Drag in the dialog's title bar (and not the window manager's bar). Dialogs can also be dragged off of the main window into their own window. Each dialog can have its own window or they can be grouped in floating docks."

At first, I was quite confused between this statement and the Preferences -> Interface -> Windows -> Dialog Behavior options of either Dockable or Floating. It turns out, the Dockable option has to be selected to create a "floating dock" of dialogs docked together in their own window, separate from the main Inkscape window. I start building my "floating dock" by dragging one of the smaller dialogs (e.g. Layers) into the larger Document Properties dialog. This action actually creates a separate window, labeled Dock# XX, into which I can drag and position the rest of my dialogs.

I can now readily recreate my "floating dock" in a separate window and position it on my second monitor at the start of each new Inkscape session. It would be really great if I can figure out how to get Inkscape to save and reopen my "floating dock" whenever I launch Inkscape.

Thank you for the notes about my dual monitor setup potentially causing problems for Inkscape saving and reopening my "floating dock." I am going to try simply dragging my floating dock onto the same monitor as the Inkscape main window before closing Inkscape. If it reopens my "floating dock" intact, moving it onto my second monitor for use will be a workaround that I will be happy with. I will post the results of this little test.

All the best,
Rob

[Moini]

This still works with master. I'm surprised, never thought this would be possible. However, those floating windows don't seem to be resizable.

[Moini]

It also doesn't redock if you have it on the same monitor, I suspect it's not properly saved in the preferences. Bug reports go here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape .

[brynn]

Oh wow! That feature certainly is not widely known about, despite being in the manual.  I've never noticed that line in the manual, and this is the first I've heard of anyone using it.

So I'm with Moini, that a bug report would be needed for this.  Would you feel comfortable making the report?  Info on how to make a report is here:  https://inkscape.org/contribute/report-bugs/  If you're not comfortable, I think I understand enough to make the report myself.  Just let me know.

The info you learn when you try the floating dock on a single monitor will definitely be helpful to include.

I don't have any trouble re-docking them.  However, I didn't try to dock them while they are docked and floating.  I took them one by one and re-docked.  Hhmm, I just tried to re-dock 3 dialogs that were docked together and floating, but they came apart on their own.  Whichever one I grabbed first came undocked from the float, and redocked in the dock.

The docked dialogs have not been resizable in Windows since approx 0.48 version.  There's an existing bug report for it, I'm pretty sure.  But maybe something about this would be the key to fixing it for Windows?

[RobM]

brynn, if you would be so kind as to submit a bug report for this issue, I would be grateful. I thought about it, but the floating dialog windows behavior in Inkscape is seemingly so confusing, especially with multiple SVGs open at the same time, I'm afraid my "mild" OCD  would quickly get me wrapped around the axle, trying to explain what I'm seeing.

I think if this "floating dock" feature was more widely known and worked consistently, it might help a lot of folks organize and customize their Inkscape UIs more efficiently, particularly those with large or dual monitor setups.

I tried creating a floating dock only on my main monitor, closing and reopening Inkscape, to no avail. No combination I tried resulted in my floating dock of dialogs being properly saved and restored. I will also try on my shop computer, which is set up with only one monitor, just to eliminate the dual monitor setup variable.

I was initially able to somewhat resize the dialogs docked together in the floating dock, and that action actually affected the overall size of the floating dock window ... but after recreating the floating dock several times over different sessions, I don't seem to be able to resize the docked dialogs anymore. 

[Moini]

"I think if this "floating dock" feature was more widely known and worked consistently, it might help a lot of folks organize and customize their Inkscape UIs more efficiently, particularly those with large or dual monitor setups."

I agree. Brynn, can you mention that in the report?

[brynn]

Yes, I agree too.  I'll mention it.

Just reviewing the Inkscape preferences options before I make the report, because I've found those options confusing in the past.  I'm still not sure I understand.

Saving Window Geometry (size and position) - Does this include dialogs, or it is only about the document window?

Saving Dialog Status - Does this only affect the opened or closed status of a dialog?  Or does it also affect the size and position?

Thanks

[Moini]

I think it's futile to test this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1674155

This is probably as far as one will get:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/171579/comments/28

[brynn]

I'm afraid I don't understand your comments.  My best guess -- Do you mean that these issues are already known, and can't be fixed?

Or otherwise, could you clarify?

[RobM]

I think it's futile to test this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1674155

I'm not seeing how this bug relates to our topic. I have always left the preference for Dialogs Behavior set on "Dockable." I actually don't see the need for or use of the "Floating" option, which I think just disables the docking behavior. If I don't want the dialogs docked, I just leave them floating in their own windows, even though they are still "dockable."

This is probably as far as one will get:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/171579/comments/28

Although this comment is seven years old, I'm starting to believe that the windows management issues we've been discussing won't be solved without the serious work John Smith alluded to in the comment.

That said, I have some UI enhancement ideas that might be more readily implemented:

• I just discovered the Preferences -> Interface option for Dockbar style to show "Icons only." This allows several docked and iconized (minimized) dialogs to remain available in a small area of screen real estate, where they appear to be reliably saved and restored across sessions.
• Using several docked and iconized dialogs, the order their icons appear seems to jump around depending on the order in which they are opened and re-iconized. As this reduces UI efficiency (and really messes with my "mild" OCD  ) It would be great if this jumping around behavior could be eliminated.
• In the interest of reducing required mouse clicks, it would awesome if the iconized dialogs would maximize for use when hovered over, and then re-iconize when the mouse cursor moved back to the main screen area.

I don't know if anyone here also uses SketchUp, but the suggestions I'm making here come from SketchUp's customizable tray behaviors. The SketchUp trays are similar to Inkscape's right-anchored dialog docking area, with several more UI enhancements.

I will continue looking for a UI setup in Inkscape that is efficient and consistent, and as I learn more, I will share it here!

[Moini]

The problem is that for Inkscape 1.0, things work quite differently. Devs want to redesign the dock as a whole. If you want to join the user interface team, visit https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_ux and maybe try to get them to work together to achieve a common proposal that a developer can work with.

[RobM]

The problem is that for Inkscape 1.0, things work quite differently. Devs want to redesign the dock as a whole.

I'm excited to learn a major 1.0 version release is in the works for Inkscape! That would seem to be the appropriate channel to put effort into updating the user interface as a whole.

If you want to join the user interface team, visit https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_ux and maybe try to get them to work together to achieve a common proposal that a developer can work with.

Thanks for the invitation to contribute ideas to the ux / ui team. I will study their discussion and decide if I think there is anything unique or useful I can add to the conversation.

[Moini]

I think a little bit of conversation-starting is okay, too If someone makes a suggestion, it's probable that others jump in. It may then well end up totally differently from the first suggestion, but it gets things moving.