Author Topic: A wind rose in a circular rule. Vector drawing. Is Inkscape appropriate ?  (Read 1034 times)

January 06, 2019, 01:40:01 PM
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Chavadam

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Good evening,
I'm new in Inkscape. I'm wondering if Inkscape can help me achieving a wind rose in a 360 °circular rule with graduations.
I just began to read the tutorial https://inkscape.org/fr/apprendre/didacticiels/ this evening.
Please, tell me which chapters I have to read or skip, if it is possible to make such a vector perfect graduated circle with Inkscape. If it is not possible or convenient, may be I can stop learning Inkscape on time.
Thanks for your recommendations and kind regards,
Chavadam
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January 07, 2019, 04:41:35 AM
Reply #1

brynn

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Welcome to the forum!

I think I understand what you mean about  circle with graduations.  I think there's something in the tutorial titled Tips and Tricks, at the top (radial tiled clones).  That's one way to do it, although you'll have to modify it a bit.  I can give you some steps to do it, if you like. There's another way which might be easier, but I can't remember what it is right now.  Hopefully someone else can say what it is.

And of course, there's always just drawing lines, rotating them to the correct angles, and placing them with a circle.  That might be easier for a beginner.  I could give you steps for that.  Or there might be a tutorial somewhere.  If you look at the Home tab above, there are hundreds of tutorials there

I've been trying to figure out what you mean about a "wind rose".  Do mean like what you sometimes see on a map, a circle which shows north, south, east and west?  I've heard that called a "compass rose" before.
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January 07, 2019, 05:28:24 AM
Reply #2

Chavadam

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Hello Brynn,
and thank you for your quick answer.

Yes, rather a 'compass rose', indeed. A star with 4 +4 +8 = 16 branches of 3 sizes, indicating the North, South, East and West. Snorry, my mother language is French (rose des vents).

"just drawing lines, rotating them to the correct angles, and placing them with a circle" : 360 little lines of two sizes : about 360 days to draw them with precision, isn't it ? And all the micro-irregularities will spring in the eyes of any viewer. Horrible. No, doesn't Inkscape offer a way to draw the circular rule automatically ?
- Yes I would appreciate your steps to do it.
- Does an open library exist in Inkscape, containing drawings made by the members and which are free to download and modify ?
Yes, after a few days reading seriously the tutorial, I'll will spend some other time to look to the contents of "the hundreds of other tutorials". Of course, I had preferred anybody telling me "go there and learn especially to apply this, this and that".

Kind regards,
Chavadam
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January 07, 2019, 07:48:21 AM
Reply #3

brynn

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about 360 days to draw them with precision, isn't it ?

Oh no, not at all!

But you really want 360 little tic marks or hash marks around the circle?  Around the inside of the circle?  I'm not sure if they could be made thin enough to fit, and still be visible.  Or will they be on the outside of the circle?

If you want 360, it would be better to use Tiled Clones dialog, and make radially tiled clones.  Let's see if I can show you what I mean about 360 lines that are thin enough to fit, yet still be visible.  I'll be right back and show you an example, and then I'll write some steps.

Oh, I was just looking through some of the tutorials I mentioned, and found this one:  http://goinkscape.com/how-to-create-a-tachometer-in-inkscape/  I'm not sure about the technique the author uses there.  The Ruler LPE should work beautifully.  I haven't tried it yet, but I'm having some doubts if the Bend LPE would work as beautifully as it appears.  But it certainly can't hurt to try it!

So you can work on that one, while I'm making an example for you.  And if that tutorial won't work for you, I'll still give you other steps for doing it.
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January 07, 2019, 08:04:12 AM
Reply #4

brynn

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Ok, attached is 360 little lines in a circle.  So you can see how it's hard to really notice that they are separate little lines.

I'll write the steps for this:

A star with 4 +4 +8 = 16 branches of 3 sizes

And that will teach you some of the basics for drawing with Inkscape.  And if you really want the 360 lines, I'll also tell you how to set up the Tiled Clones dialog, to create it.  Because making 360 lines with basic drawing, that really would be tedious, and take some time.  I'll be back soon.
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January 07, 2019, 08:58:12 AM
Reply #5

brynn

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First I should note that there are at least a few ways to do this, and this is just how I would do it.  Others will have different preferences and ideas.

1 -- Using the Pen :pen: or Pencil :pfh: tool, draw a vertical line, which is the same length as the width of the circle.  Holding the Ctrl key while you drag the mouse constrains it to vertical or horizontal (or 15° angle increments).
2 -- Duplicate (Edit menu, or this button, :dup:, or the key shortcut, which can be looked up in Help menu > Key and Mouse Ref)
3 -- Object menu > Transform > Rotate, and enter 22.5°, then click Apply button
4 -- Repeat #2 and #3 until you have all 8 lines

At this point, you should have something like this:

cr1.png
*cr1.png
(6.17 kB . 211x207)
(viewed 253 times)


5 -- Using the Selection tool, click on the vertical line, hold the Shift key, and click on the horizontal line.  The Shift key allows for multiple selections.
6 -- Path menu > Combine
7 -- Select the NW/SE and NE/SW lines
8 -- Path menu > Combine
9 -- Select all the other 4 lines
10 -- Path menu > Combine

11 -- Using the Ellipse/Circle tool, draw a circle.  You have to hold the Ctrl key, to make sure it's a true circle, and not an ellipse.
12 -- Switch to the Selection tool, and on the control bar, you can set the Width and Height to the same length of the lines
13 -- Set up Snapping.  The Snap control bar is usually on the right side of the Inkscape window.  Set it up like in this screenshot:

snap-basic.png
*snap-basic.png
(5.32 kB . 30x583)
(viewed 243 times)


With snapping set up, you can drag the circle (with Selection tool) over to the lines, and it will snap into place.  It sort of jumps off the mouse, when it gets close to something.  You might have to try a couple of times to make it snap in the right way.  For example, it might try to snap so that the lines are beside the circle, instead of inside it.  But it's not hard to do.

14 -- Duplicate the circle
15 -- With the Selection tool, and while you're holding both the Shift and Ctrl keys, grab one of the arrows that you see around the circle, and drag inward.  You can see that this allows you to scale the circle.  If you just want to approximate the length for the tic marks, just stop dragging when the distance between the outer circle and the inner circle is the length you want for the tic marks.

However, if you want the tic marks to be some specific length, you'll need to use the Selection tool control bar, and set the size of the circle so that the difference between the width of the inner and outer circles is the length of the tic marks.  Then you'll have to give the circle a temporary color (click on some color in the palette).  I don't know why this is necessary, but the circle has to have a fill color, so that snapping to the rotation center can happen.  When you snap the circle into place, watch for the snap indicator to tell you that you've snapped rotation center to rotation center.  After you see that snap indicator, you can remove the fill color (click the tiny X chip on the left end of the palette).

16 -- Let's say that this circle is the right size to create the smallest tic marks.  So select the combined 4 lines, which I would assume you want those the smallest.  Hold the Shift key and select the new circle at the same time.
17 -- Path menu > Cut Path
18 -- Deselect everything (click in any open area of the canvas).  At first, it might look like nothing has happened.  But really, Inkscape has cut those lines to the proper length.  Now you can just delete the inner sections of those lines, which leaves the tic marks in place.  (Select with Selection tool, then Delete.)  Here's what it should look like after you delete the inner part of the lines.

cr2.png
*cr2.png
(6.8 kB . 226x214)
(viewed 236 times)


19 -- Repeat #14 through #18, for the other 2 sets of lines

cr3.png
*cr3.png
(6.31 kB . 218x216)
(viewed 243 times)


cr4.png
*cr4.png
(6.09 kB . 229x216)
(viewed 230 times)


If you want a star shape for the outer profile, you can use the Star tool.  One of the tutorials that you were reading explained how to use the Star tool.  (The one titled Shapes, I think.)

Let us know how it goes :)
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January 07, 2019, 11:56:33 PM
Reply #6

Chavadam

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Dear Brynn,
Mmmmmmmmany thanks for all the work that your answers required. I think I may be convinced that Inkscape can do the job and I have enough topics (Tiled Clones dialog ...) to look for in the tutorials.
I was not clear enough about this : I'll draw a compass rose of 16 branches (and some characters) and all around it I'll draw a circular rule with 360 tic marks or hash marks (kind of tachymeter).
I'll keep you informed, but it will take a certain time, as I can only work on it one evening on two.
Again, thanks for your tips and time.
Chavadam
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January 07, 2019, 11:59:48 PM
Reply #7

brynn

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January 17, 2019, 08:23:03 AM
Reply #8

Chavadam

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Good day, Brynn en Co.
Inkscape is indeed very powerful.
At the moment, I am able to draw the following compass rose :
Compass rose 2.PNG
*Compass rose 2.PNG
(71.39 kB . 553x561)
(viewed 224 times)
and Compass rose 1.PNG
*Compass rose 1.PNG
(30.69 kB . 638x558)
(viewed 220 times)


Questions :
1) In my compass rose, I had like to draw straight lines from a tip of a (4 or 8 branches) star to its opposite tip (to make a black side and a white side of each branch). But the tips of a star (or polygon) are not fitted with nodes and it is not possible to access each line of the star. How to manage this point ?

2) I think I also need these nodes to delimitate new triangles in each of these branches, to fill these triangles with a color, is not it ?

(At this moment, I do not yet make the difference between 'combine' (in 'Path' menu) and 'Group' (in Object 'menu'). There a so much manipulations to discover)

Many thanks.
Chavadam
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January 17, 2019, 01:54:07 PM
Reply #9

brynn

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"Columbo"!!  I watch every Sunday night  (yeah, I'm old)  :-D

Yes, you're correct.  You need to make a separate triangle to have a black half and a white half, for each "arm" of the star.  You can fill it with black, and then remove the stroke, to make it fit well.  Have you discovered Snapping yet?

This page tells you about snapping, which is how I would create the triangles.  http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Snapping.html

1 -- Set up the snap control bar like in the attached screenshot. 
2 -- Select the star and do Path menu > Object to path (if you didn't already do that)
3 -- Use the Pen tool to draw the triangle.  Whenever you place a node (click once with Pen tool) snapping will make sure that the node is precisely placed at the tip of the arm of the star, and the inner corner, and at the center of the star.  When you come back around to the starting place, make sure you have the mouse inside that tiny square.  It will become filled with red when your mouse is in the right place.  Then click once, and that closes the path.  It's probably not vital that the path be closed, in this case, but I like to be thorough about these things.

You can either draw each and every triangle this way.  Or you can draw one triangle, duplicate it, flip it, and rotate it around, as needed.  As you have learned something about the power of Inkscape, there are often a few different ways to approach a particular goal.  Most of the time, it's a matter of personal preference how you make a drawing.  I can only think of a few things where there's one way and only one way to do something.

I could make a little video to show you the process, if you like.  Some people like to learn on their own, and others like to have instructions.  So just let me know, and I'd be glad to make a little video.
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January 19, 2019, 03:17:47 PM
Reply #10

brynn

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Better late than never, I hope  :b1:   Suddenly I just realized I forgot to answer your question about the difference between Grouping and Combining.

In some ways, grouping and combining seem to do the same thing.  But they are different.

Grouping is about "objects".  2 or more of any kind of object can be grouped together.  It makes them act like a single object.  (Actually it's possible to group a single object, but beginners probably won't need it.)  Kinds of objects:  shapes, text, paths, clones, and not intending to confuse you, but a group is also a kind of object.  You can have a group of groups.  And there are some other kinds of objects, that I just don't remember at the moment.   

(Valuable beginner tip:  When you have the Selection tool enabled, any selected object is identified in the status bar.)

Combining is about "paths".  Only paths can be combined.  (If you try to combine something that's not a path, you'll see an error message in the status bar.)  When you combine 2 or more paths, you create a "compound path".  And the 2 or more original paths are now called "sub-paths".

Here's where it gets confusing.  A "path" is one kind of object, and when you group paths together, it's very similar to combining.  Sometimes it doesn't really matter whether you group or combine paths, and sometimes it does.  It depends on the specific file and the specific goal for the paths in question, whether it really matters which one you use.

I hope that helps a little.
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February 11, 2019, 02:40:35 AM
Reply #11

Chavadam

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Hello Brynn en co,
Thank you for your answers and tips.
I just reached my goal :Compass rose 3.PNG
*Compass rose 3.PNG
(46.01 kB . 551x557)
(viewed 185 times)

I hope you see the lines of this drawing, as they are 0,1 and 0,025 mm thick. This is a requirement of the lasercut machine.
I need to design drawings only rarely, but I'm very glad having discovered Inkscape.
Thanks and may be to a next time.  :ty1:
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February 11, 2019, 05:11:33 AM
Reply #12

Moini

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You may need to tweek the z-order (stacking order) of the elements a bit still to make it look less warped.

February 11, 2019, 11:08:18 PM
Reply #13

brynn

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Oh, that came out quite nice!

I guess it depends about the z order.  I was just about to say that I like that effect
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