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Author Topic: Need help with creating Logo / can't cut just one area to see layer below?  (Read 2057 times)

February 21, 2018, 08:31:34 AM
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restlesslenses

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Hello! I've made a few little logos for friends but up until recently only used Photoshop for them and never knew that they needed to be vector images in order to be done right so I've switched to using Gimp and Inkscape. I can typically figure most of what I need to know for editing by googling and browsing the forums, but I cannot seem to specifically find what I need and it's beginning to get very frustrating lol especially since it's probably just that I'm using the wrong search terms!

Basically what I want to do is remove pieces of certain layers to view the layers beneath, I want to make the logo in the first image in Inkscape in high quality but can't figure out how to get the images to overlap or "go under", whatever it is called. I have added each piece of the logo so far into their own layers but I cannot figure out the next step. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! The second image is where I am currently at in the process, I want the wrenches to appear to be underneath the banner but poking out the same way they are in the original logo that I made with Photoshop.
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February 22, 2018, 02:03:44 AM
Reply #1

brynn

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Welcome to the forum!

Often when new users say "layers", they're referring to objects which are stacked on top of each other, but they are really all in one layer.  However, I get the sense from your message that you really are using layers, and that would explain why you can't move objects up and down through the z-order.  I can't tell for sure if that's the problem, without seeing the SVG file.  But I'll give you some brief info, and if it doesn't help, then please share your SVG file with us.

If there's some reason that you need each object in its own layer (like for example, you're planning to have the design printed on fabric) you can just rearrange the order of the layers.  Open Layers menu > Layers.  There you will see the layers listed in their correct order, and some green arrow buttons for moving the layers up or down through the list.

If you don't necessarily need the layers, you can move all the objects into one layer.  Select it, then Shift + PgUp or PgDn to move to different layers.  After that, switch to the Selection tool, if not already enabled.  On the control bar (the first toolbar above the horizontal ruler) there are these 4 buttons:  :m2b:, :low:, :rb1:, :mtt:.  If you can see those tiny little arrows, you'll get the idea what they do. 

So just select an object, and click this one  :low:  to move the selected object down by one step.  You can click repeatedly to move several steps.  Note that every object occupies it's own level in the z-order, whether they are on top of each other or not.  Also note that if you make a Group, the group is considered to be one object, no matter how many objects might be in the group, as far as the z-order matters.  It's possible to move objects in the z-order inside groups, but not between groups.

Last comment.  If you get confused about what the z-order is, try Object menu > Objects dialog.  It's a relatively new feature for Inkscape.  Before we had it, you could only know about the z-order of objects by how they behave when you start moving objects up and down.  But the Object dialog displays objects in their z-order.  Hhmm....I haven't used it very much, but I think you can drag/drop objects in the Object dialog, to move them through the z-order.  I think you could rearrange the layers that way too.

Let us know how it goes :)
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February 22, 2018, 04:27:30 PM
Reply #2

restlesslenses

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Thank you so much for your reply! I understand partly what you mean? I had definitely started working out without adding everything to layers and for a while I had figured that was my first problem because I could use layers easily in Photoshop so I figured out how to mess with layers in Inkscape but still had no luck. I saved my SVG file and I can attach it here, I'll start working on putting everything onto the same layer and removing the extra layers but I figured I would upload the file so you could take a look if you had the time anyway. Thank you again so much for replying!
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February 23, 2018, 05:39:09 AM
Reply #3

Moini

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Seems we've got a duplicate question here...
Next time, restlesslenses, please choose one forum for your question - it's the same people who work in both, and it's not always obvious to know if it's the same person who asks the question. This could save us some work.

February 23, 2018, 09:26:45 AM
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restlesslenses

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I do apologize for that, but after joining the other forum I noticed that more people tend to post and more often in that thread and therefore I thought I might get more views and advice from there, kind of broadening the field. Either post may be deleted at your discretion of course, I was unaware that the forums were so closely related.
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February 23, 2018, 01:09:00 PM
Reply #5

Lazur

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No worries, we had this conversation from the very start.

Off-Topic: show
If the inkscape project catches up on the forum concept, there wil be one official forum, merging the database of the existing two in question. If ever.


Ontopic: the layer structure in photoshop is not necessary to have the desired z-order of object -one layer can hold alot of objects.
In fact you wouldn't need to create any layers for such a task just use the Home/End/PgUp/PgDown buttons.

As far as I understand you want to achieve the hexagon at the bottom (End), wrench-crossing in the middle, text on top (Home).
=You are after splitting the current hexagonal banner to two parts.

Honestly it'd be three times faster redrawing the whole thing than coping with the manual editing of the existing stuff.
-Saying that without opening the attached svg in inkscape.
On top of that there are also problems with the wrenches.

February 24, 2018, 05:18:07 AM
Reply #6

brynn

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Ok, I looked at your SVG file.  Since you've expressed the need to produce vector files, I should mention that only the 2 wrenches are vector paths.  The black square (currently in Background layer) and the object on top which is in the Banner layer, are both imported raster images.  Are you planning to convert them to vector?

Both would be relatively easy to recreate as vector paths.  Or maybe you just have not gotten that far yet?
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February 26, 2018, 11:14:45 AM
Reply #8

restlesslenses

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Yes, Brynn, I just hadn't gotten that far. I was actually wondering about that, if I should vectorize each piece and then make it or vectorize it when I'm finished? The wrenches I had actually done just to refresh myself on actually doing it lol. I haven't had much time to even work on it, but I've restarted it now and plan to work on it until I hopefully figure it out. I figured starting from scratch and not using the layers like I had before might help some.
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February 27, 2018, 08:06:02 AM
Reply #9

brynn

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You could use Trace Bitmap to convert the Banner image, or even the whole image at once.  But if you have the Pen/Bezier tool figured out enough to draw the wrenches paths, I would  do it that way.  Trace Bitmap can inject some tiny distortions here and there.  So in my opinion, it's almost always best to manual trace rather than auto trace.
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February 27, 2018, 01:12:10 PM
Reply #10

Lazur

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General note: what you wan to achieve is quite specific however the skills to do so could be gained in much simpler graphics.
Giving you a spot on step-by-step tutorial would mean to draw that logo itself -which is problematic as you'd use it as an original artwork, for branding -and of which design choices we can hardly not judge upon the process.

Using the trace bitmap? That's a no-go in logo design.
Learn how to use the pen tool and node editing and trace manually.
Need to draw a geometric banner? Learn about boolean operations, snapping, simple transformations etc.
There was a helping guide that suggested directing to the manual is the best choice, to learn step by step from ground zero.

Still.
Need a decent logo as soon as possible?
At least take some bit of research and feedback from an outsider/non-relative. It's not for your feelings but for the job.
That logo is hardly legible, too detailed and even the wrenches don't stick out -so much effort spent on the realisation in inkscape while just because it'd be in a well presented svg it won't necessarily mean it's a good image.
Sorry if you didn't ask for this but since we are in the help section, I couldn't resist.

February 27, 2018, 06:18:35 PM
Reply #11

brynn

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To elaborate a little more what Lazur means by this

Quote (selected)
That logo is hardly legible, too detailed and even the wrenches don't stick out -so much effort spent on the realisation in inkscape while just because it'd be in a well presented svg it won't necessarily mean it's a good image.

When you start to study about logos, what you end up with is certain "rules" or at least guidelines.  Some of them are, never use more than 2 colors, or 3 if you absolutely have to.  The design needs to be super simple.  Think of the Target logo.  Think of the Walmart logo.  Pepsi, Coke -- all super simple.

A lot of people start with logo design, making a graphic for their own business or someone else's, and I think what they typically are thinking about, is something to put on the letterhead or website.  But it really doesn't turn out to be a logo, in the true sense.  It's really just a graphic that they are using to represent their business or product, but it doesn't quite meet what professionals consider to be "a logo".

So I would say, if your customer or client (or friend) is happy, you are successful.  But if you want to go into the business of making logos, do some research.  This looks like a pretty good resource:  http://landt.co/2016/06/logo-or-loco-why-thoughtful-logo-design-matters/
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February 27, 2018, 07:21:09 PM
Reply #12

restlesslenses

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Thank you very much for the advice Brynn, and I intend to keep it in mind in the future but this is the exact design that my client wants, and not just for the business cards, he wants to use it for everything. I do think I will have a talk with him about making a simpler logo as well, something easier to use for small purposes because it definitely makes sense that he should have one from what you said and also from the link (I had made his first logo for him as well and it was just a black and white wrench with his name on the handle, but he ended up wanting something more complex).

Also Brynn thanks for repeatedly giving me tips and all of the time you've taken to help me here, I have actually been practicing with the bezier tool, learning to move and add/remove nodes, etc so I will be going that route when I finally vectorize. I am slowly but surely learning my way around the program, it's been all over the place so far but I'm learning plenty that I know will help me out with future projects and I'm excited.

I plan on finishing it no matter what, and I am still struggling a bit with the paths but I know I'll get there. No matter what I call it though- design or logo, I came here for help with making it and I appreciate anyone who has taken the time to help me with that specifically.
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February 28, 2018, 01:27:58 PM
Reply #13

Lazur

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March 01, 2018, 09:27:33 AM
Reply #14

brynn

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Sorry, Lazur.  I apologize if I wasn't stepping on your toes when I posted what I thought you meant about logos.  That's a really nice video that you made for restlesslenses!
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March 01, 2018, 11:02:56 PM
Reply #15

Lazur

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Off-Topic: show
^-my attached svg is still downloaded 0 times...
Let alone my suggestion of reconsidering the design for various reasons (White strokes? Really?) are disregarded.
And it's not the first time when my spot on answers are handled irrelevant/as invisible etc. Just another reason for drifting slowly away (at least) from the help section.

March 01, 2018, 11:22:22 PM
Reply #16

brynn

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Off-Topic: show
Quote (selected)
^-my attached svg is still downloaded 0 times...

Well geez, you never know when people are going to visit the forum!  I think she(?) already said once about being too busy.  Plus, if it doesn't help this person, someone else will come along and learn something by using it.
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March 04, 2018, 11:44:07 AM
Reply #17

restlesslenses

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Hello! I am so incredibly sorry for not being here for DAYS and also very very sorry that I never saw your other replies on this thread, Lazur. The last time I made a post the only one I had saw was from Brynn (didn't even notice her quote from your post because I was on my phone) and the next day I ended up working straight for so many days so I haven't been around or even on my computer much. I'm gonna check out the video and re-read the other post because I am still hoping to get this done and I'd like to fit it in today because it's the only day I have. Thank you so very much for taking the time to help in such a big way and I do apologize for completely missing your other post and then again for not being around!
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