Inkscape and Prosthetics

[brynn]

The one I prefere is the Pai1-3 that I first tested.
It looks random because of the transparency and the deformation.

Is this the one with the hole in it?  Or the one you want a nice finished file for practice?  What do you mean by transparency?  All the patterns I've made have transparency.

....but it I can achieve the application, which passes through another operation, in order to have more divisions and a better 'softness', then it should look like on paper but on the shape with just some stretching.

I didn't understand that.

Re the puzzle pattern, yes, that looks like it might even have been made with an extension of Inkscape.  I haven't seen that extension, but I guess it might be possible to set it to draw more and smaller pieces.  I think I know the website where it can be downloaded.  But I could also use that file to make the strokes wider. 

I guess using the puzzle pattern would be symbolic, as a pattern for a prosthesis?  When I think of puzzle piece, I think of autism, because a puzzle piece is the logo for an organization about autism.  But yes, I could make those wider, smaller, and more numerous.  Or just use Lazur's puzzle3.svg file.

In fact, you could use Lazur's puzzle3.svg file, and do it yourself.  I can tell you in a few steps:

-- Select the drawing with Selection tool.
-- Object menu > Fill and Stroke > Stroke Style tab > Width  (adjust the width of the strokes)
-- Path menu > Stroke to Path
-- Save As Plain SVG

That's it!  However, as I mentioned before, Inkscape inserts all kinds of extra, uneeded nodes, double nodes, sometimes 4, 6, 8 nodes, all stacked on 1 point, when you use Stroke to Path.  It's really unfortunate.  But those are the things that I would fix before giving you a final file.  So if you widen the stroke yourself, and either don't want to, don't have time, or can't fix those node issues, I could do it for you.  Or I could do the whole thing.

Just let me know what you need 

[Melodicpinpon]

http://www.orfit.com/en/static-hand-splints/

This is the answer to the patron question, very usefull for me; although the virtual modelisation allows a cleaner work, these shapes will help, if you feel like, I can send a single pic of each 'patron'. I could in certain way avoid to integrate these shapes imediately inside the pattern design, but it might aswell have an interest, in the case of several hole that might like to have a correspondance of design. It is worth to try, I guess.

Thanks for the tip, I got the lines wider and like the concept, although it might indeed stay fragile if it is to keep the hole in shape of a puzzle part..
I was refering to the first svg that you sent me, the one that you can see on the pic, with the colours, this one is well balanced, a bit surprising in its shapes, very good indeed : )

[brynn]

Ok, I'm a little confused in which files we're discussing which issue.  You said the one you like best so far is pai1-3.  I never sent an SVG of that, but you must have somehow derived it from the PNG.  But I can make an SVG for you, nice and clean, to practice with.

Is pai1-3 the one you said that has a tiny, repeating hole in it?

.... although it might indeed stay fragile if it is to keep the hole in shape of a puzzle part..

Maybe not, if you made the stroke wide enough....although I guess after a certain point, those small, round, inward and outward parts (there probably is a word for those, but I don't know what it might be) get pinched so much they would just be small holes.  As I said before, I haven't see that attachment, but I'm guessing it allows you to set a certain size for the puzzle piece as well as for the outer dimensions.  So you could make it with smaller pieces.  I'll try to find it.

Ok, for the last 5 attachments -- the first one, I'm not sure what to do with it.  But the last 4, those are the flat pieces I was asking for, right!?

I can get the shape from those attachments.  However, it would probably be better to have the life-size shapes, to achieve the best precision.  Well, that's assuming that these are the same shapes you will use for the prosthetics.  If those are the exact shapes you're going to use for the prosthetic, then the life size shape would be better.  But if these are just a generalized shape, it might not matter so much.  And I guess you would have a MRI or CATscan of each person's body parts.  So I guess these are just general shapes, right? 

After I made the first design (pai1-3) you had said to think more in a different direction, more like holes in a solid sheet.  But I can go back to that kind of swirly type of design or pattern.  Although as you can see, I work pretty slowly.  I'm still having fun with this "paisley unit".  But the spirograms could be swirly.  We'll see what I can do next 

[brynn]

Hey, before I re-make pai1-3, if you would like the pattern to be larger or smaller, now is the time to say!

[Melodicpinpon]

many many patterns, always, I can easily cut inside afterwards.

[brynn]

Besides making new patterns, I'm re-making pai1-3, exactly as it is, except with a cleaner file.  (to avoid any potential issues with Blender)  This would be a good time to change the size (more but smaller patterns, or fewer but larger).  Would you like the pattern units any different size?

I don't know what you mean about "cut inside afterwards".

[Melodicpinpon]

Yes, more and smaller patterns will help; an outer line to close the edges should normally help avoiding the black and white entrance conflict, because I think that the program writes the curves without plain or empty, and then chooses wether the black should enter between these two or those two other curves, which is funny because it achieves filling but by two different entries, resulting in this mixed answer(both normal and inverted filling, separated by a curved lined, appeared out of nowhere).

Cutting afterwards means that, whenever the program achieves to understand where the black and white goes, between the curves, I have to convert it to a mesh anyway, and maybe re-mesh it on a different plane precut in small squares(knife project tool in Blender), if there is a risk to have too big triangles resulting in a 'stiff' material to apply (I'll send you a screenshot); the mesh format has the filling integrated sothat I can edit it and cut through it before or after applying it n the shape; this step has to be done anyway to draw the limits of the prosthetic socket, except maybe with the 'patrons' I sent, but I still have to try it, because we have been making Imediate Fitting(IMF) at school and there is nearly always a overlap and pasting on each other part, which I want to avoid to get a nice design(without the overlap of patterns).

The puzzle pattern won't be understandable if the lines go thicher than this, and here it seems me too empty to ensure the resistence of the printed part sothat I can not use it. If there is a simple way to have larger attachment curves for the same puzzle parts size, then maybe coud it do. Another option is to fill entire parts, 1 on two, just keeping enough of the lines to have the junction, this might be beautifull, with many small puzzle parts.

I dedicate myself understanding and explaining the printing techniques that can be used for that purpose, I can send it to you when finished if you feel like reading about it. I'd like to thank you in some way : ).

[brynn]

Yes, more and smaller patterns will help; an outer line to close the edges should normally help avoiding the black and white entrance conflict, because I think that the program writes the curves without plain or empty, and then chooses wether the black should enter between these two or those two other curves, which is funny because it achieves filling but by two different entries, resulting in this mixed answer(both normal and inverted filling, separated by a curved lined, appeared out of nowhere).

Regarding closing the edges with a sort of frame around the design -- yes, that will help to avoid the positive and negative seeming to swap places.  But won't that put a straight line along the length of the prosthetic?  That's why I was asking for the flat shape.  With the flat shape, I can make the edges meet, and that should solve that problem.  However I would need the shape for the person's unique body part.

I guess Blender can take the 2d SVG path, and extrude it to 3d.  But can it go the other way?  You must be giving Blender something that starts out 2d.  Could that be used to fit the pattern to the custom flat shape?

[brynn]

And one more thing.  A while ago, you said something about "stick it 4 times".  If that means that you're putting together 2 x 2 tiling of the A4 pages together, it would leave less room for error if I just make the design that large to begin with.

If that's not what you meant, then nevermind.  But let me know if it is, so I can make them larger.  (The pattern would be the same size, just more repetitions.)

[Lazur]

RE: mandala

Looking great!

But maybe repeating it would ruin the symbolism/hierarchy.

[Melodicpinpon]

The outside edge will not create a line, in the way I use it, and whiwh actually is a bit a useless complication that could be easily avoided accepting to create juste a little full part at the bottom(and which is actually needed to attach the rest of the prosthetic, In order to avoid any division line, I have to deform the mesh all around the shape, as you would do with a tissu around, let's say, a umbrella's grip. There was a connexion problem in the model with colours, but this should be easy to avoid, wraping just a bit more.

The mandala is just joy, please feel free to use it the way you like.

[Lazur]

Here is a dotty pattern, made with cloning

What is the desirable size of the base pattern? I guess it was already mentioned before somewhere.

[brynn]

At first he said A4 page.  But with that requirement, then the pattern could only be the same proportion.  So now, I think he needs a4 or larger.

[Lazur]

I drew those on an  A4 template, with the base pattern being 15 mm/15 mm. I meant the base pattern size in that sence -the smallest parts without repeating.

[Melodicpinpon]

A small 'gift' for you both; you do a great job!
http://tvb-design.com//sites/all/applications/Perforator/index.html

The program has been made by Thomas, a young talented man here in Brussels, you could like it ; )

[brynn]

Nice!

   Put's me in a mind that we need another section on this website, for resources like this.....including.....a collection of links to Inkscape extensions which are not in the Extensions Repository.....like that jigsaw puzzle extension.  Hhmmmm......

Edit
Oh, sorry Lazur, I misread your question.  He hasn't given any size for the base pattern.  But it sounds like he might favor a fairly large size.  The base pattern on the one he said he liked is.....without looking it up, I'd say 300 to 400 px².  The most important factor seems to be the size of the "holes" and that there not be any areas that would be weak spots when printed, such as narrow lines.  The stroke width that seems to work is 10 to 15 px, if that's how the design is made.  And also, it needs to be balanced as far as positive and negative space.

[brynn]

Oohhh, look what I found:  http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/tiles.svg 

With this, we can create an entirely random (as far as I can tell) assymetrical, yet tileable design.  If it produces any closed circles, we can click on the page, and that area gets re-drawn.  Or you can click "rebuild" and draw a new design.  When the design is how we like it, we can save the SVG, make the stroke wider, stroke to path, save as plain svg, and done.

Not exactly "pretty", but random and assymetrical.  It looks like about the scale we need, although a little too large.  But that can be fixed once we have it in Inkscape.

Anyway, I just stumbled on it, and thought I'd mention it 

[Melodicpinpon]

Time to learn a french expression: 'n'importe quoi' : D lol
If the program I sent you does not export(it gets stuck with middle and heavy images), you can just make a screenshot and use it for a conversion in inkscape.

[Lazur]

There are settings in the tiled clones option you can use to generate the same.
Xav just recently covered it in full circle magazine.

[brynn]

Just saw a tv news story on this:  http://www.5280prosthetics.com/smartpuck/  I don't know if it could fit in the kind of prosthesis you're making, but just fyi.  Looks interesting 

[Melodicpinpon]

Thank you, this is very interesting. I'll try and find the time to enter further into this technology. Until now I had only seen an automatic motorised decompression system that does not include several options. I'm not very found of I-phones but the principle is great.
Sorry for the last message, I've been thinking a bit to it and, although I did not read the article, this principle may be usefull through further developpement(a kind of ready-made 'arborescence' that can lead through a personal design only through choosing between several options.

This picture shows another design principle that I finally achieved to do on blender(it is simple, but I did not find it immediately) I allows certain control of the dimension of the holes, and total control with just a bit more manipulations(and perhaps a paying add-on for Blender: Polystrips) There still some practicing to improve on the 'correction' of the shape, but it works and is printable. Sorry if I do not work much on the integration of the design for a few weeks: I have to write this final work to get the diploma, but will come back for sure to you, after some learning of Inkscape probably, in the beginning of july: )

sorry for the delayed answer, and thank you for the video, this guy is so funny, I had seen other videos from him but not this one. As a vegetarian and ex-vegan, I liked especially the one where he's desguised as a pig and throwing chips on a butcher lol.

[brynn]

No worries about delays.  As I've mentioned, I do work slowly. 

I have a much better version of the design you liked, with nodes reduced from 2429 to 1433!  (And a new bug report as well  )  I still don't know much about how Blender uses these designs, but potentially having such a very conservative file should make the chances for any odd pattern glitches much less likely.  I'm planning to add at least 1 more design to that file, so that's why I haven't uploaded it for you yet.  It will be the same design but just at a smaller scale.

If you like that triangle pattern in your last attachment, you should try the new Voronoi/Delany triangulation extension.  I thought Lazur had attached one on the first page of this thread, but I can't seem to find it.  I must be thinking of another topic.  Or maybe I'll just make one and put it in this new file.  Here's an exmple of what it looks like:  https://inkscape.org/en/gallery/item/4190/ (although I think there's plenty of options for changing the scale, number, etc of triangles).

[Lazur]

Still on 0.48, probably that was just a link to new feature notes. But looking at that last attachment, it seems totally unnecessary -there is a workaround to make that 3D "mesh" from a plain simple mesh -similarly as extruding the edges.

Speaking of delayed answers, good luck to get everything on time!

[brynn]

Ok, here's the design you said you liked, done 4 different ways, in the attached pai3.svg

Layer 2 - a similar scale as before, but the edges are what I call "finished.  It's not clipped like the others, and I think that might have been the cause for the switching between black and white.  It should behave just like you want, and why you asked for the design with a line around the edge.

But just in case you still want it with a line around the edge, Layer 2.2 has that line.  And again, it's all nice and finished, no double nodes, or nodes switched between what they should be (the new bug I discovered).

Layer 2.4 is the same as layer 2, except a smaller scale.  Having a smaller scale allows for the lines to be thinner, and holes to be smaller.
Layer 2.6 is the same as 2.2 (with line around the edge, except smaller scale.

I started another file with a design based on 3 of the paisley units, rather than 4.  So attached also are a couple of PNGs -- same design, but one with larger scale and 1 smaller.  If you like one of those designs,  I'll make a finished file for you.  But it's kind of a lot of work, and I'd rather not do it, unless you're sure you like it.  Oh, and another design based on the 3 unit design.

(Remember that the SVG file doesn't show a preview.  It's attached, Plain SVG, but you don't see the image, just a text link.)

[brynn]

And another design which I think is probably not exactly what you're looking for.  But just in case.  (I actually enjoy this kind of work  )